Three of the most important question you will ever ask yourself:

by Chance 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M

    I would like to suggest a slight change to your first question:

    What is the meaning of life?

    I have no idea what the meaning of life is and I think looking for a greater meaning is a fruitless journey. However, I do believe that each individual should ask:

    What is the meaning of MY life?

    We all should live for our individual purpose. Is that selfish? Yes - of course and that is not a bad thing.

    Since separating myself from the borg I have been on that quest of finding meaning for MY life. And I am enjoying every minute of it. thank you very much.

    BTW happy BD Ayn Rand 100 years Feb 3.

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    If we truly love God, and we obey him then of course he would welcome us into a paradise he has built for us.

    Surely, like the initial paradise, this would become boring very quickly and a new element of conflict would need to be introduced? If not, then why not begin with the paradise and cut out all the suffering? Or is your god incapable of that?

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    Hey Chance,

    I used to ponder these kinds of questions, too. I wondered what would ever prompt a perfect, complete God to do anything. Create stuff, dance, anything. I always act out of incompleteness. I'm hungry, I'm bored, I'm depressed, I'm feeling generous, something I want prompts my actions. What could God possibly want? And why hadn't he ever wanted it before the time he began creating? I usually swerved off at that point into some sort of a "time is different for God, he created time and doesn't exist in its flow like we do" sort of reasoning. But that doesn't really work either, since the Bible at least says he created the spirit creatures, and then the physical world. So what prompted the physical creation? What incompleteness did he feel that required him to create it? (I'm not asking for answers on these, it's just what ran through my mind.)

    The argument "terrible things must happen in order to allow for freewill" doesn't hold water for me. I know for some it does, so maybe I'm just bull-headed about it. But it seems that even people with freewill could be made to live within certain boundaries. For instance, I have the freewill to punch my wife. I can draw a fist back, thrust it forward, and know fully well that I intend to impact her face. (She can actually take me down, so it would be very unwise to do this!) But at the instant before I actually made contact, God could stop me. He could punish me as if I'd actually done it, because had he not intervened, I would have. My freewill wasn't violated, I was still allowed to make the wrong decision. But more importantly, her right to be unaffected by evil in a perfect God's universe was respected.

    I give my 6-year-old a ton of lattitude. He can watch pretty much whatever he wants on TV, play whatever game he wants to play, ask for specific snacks from the store. He gets an allowance to make his own purchases with. But I still maintain some control to prevent him from getting hurt or hurting others. He can't watch porn, he can't buy a gun, etc. If that's impinging on his freewill, then it's a fair impinging. If he knew what I know, he'd agree. And if I were God, then there'd be things I'd know that my human creations couldn't know, and I'd feel within my rights to keep them in certain boundaries. (Like don't punch your wife.)

    Any "where would you draw the line"-type arguments fall apart when you remember that it's a perfect God that's drawing the line. Wherever he draws it, it would be the right spot. If you really, really disagree, too bad. Who's God around here, anyway? ;-)

    The existence of evil against innocent people is about the strongest argument I have against the existence of God. I can't buy it until I can accept an explanation of it. And freewill just doesn't do it for me.

    Dave

  • Chance
    Chance

    prophecor
    Quot: ?Where did you find such a totally cool Avitar??
    Wh? Me? I made it. Or are you speaking to someone else?

    NewYork44M,
    Quote: ?Since separating myself from the borg?
    That was the funniest thing I?ve heard all week on these forums. Borg! AH HAHAHAH
    Never thought about it that way.

    funkyderek

    Quote: ?Surely, like the initial paradise, this would become boring very quickly and a new element of conflict would need to be introduced?

    I don?t think it would ever become boring at that point. It?s the whole alone thing that can get pretty boring. (Seems like I saw an episode of Twilight zone before about being utterly alone and it was like a nightmare). Being alone with only your stuff and no friends or loved ones to share the paradise with, no intelligent, freewill free thinking beings? that would be lonely.

    funkyderek & AlmostAtheist


    Quote: ?If not, then why not begin with the paradise and cut out all the suffering? Or is your god incapable of that???

    Explain why God isn?t approachable so to speak.
    Well, I have another explanation that coincides with the previous one that would explain that also.

    Q4.) Why doesn?t God make himself more obvious to everyone, or put restraints on us to keep us from hurting one another?

    At one point after I?ve made my conclusions as stated above, I also asked myself the same questions that Funkyderek & AlmostAtheist have just asked. And I believe I have a little understanding on this matter as well.

    Imagine if God had a physical home on our earth. Imagine a wonderful grand building where anyone who wants to approach God and see him with their own eyes could travel there and see him in person. In all his power and glory that shows obviously to everyone that he is the true GOD. And everyone knew about it. What effect would that have on us? I would think that everyone in the world would want to see ?This God? they?ve always heard about for themselves. Kind of a see it to believe it thing. Don?t you agree? If that were the case then God?s plan for our freewill simply wouldn?t work. Why? Because after everyone has seen that God is real with their own eyes it wouldn?t effectively give them a chance to choose to love him with their own freewill. A lot of people would obey everything they?re suppose to do simply out of fear of him. Not out of respect for him but out of respect for his power. God want us to have a fair chance to make our decisions without intimidation.
    This also fits in with AlmostAtheist?s scenario about restraining him from hitting his wife and having her pummel him to the ground. How? Because if God made his presence that obvious to us as to stop each one of us physically from hurting one another that would also be a public display of his power and interfere with our freewill. Then people would also be running around shouting to his invisible but yet obvious presence for him to show his self. That might even be enough to drive people mad (crazy).

    I don?t question myself on these matters much anymore. I have come to these conclusions and no matter how accurate or inaccurate they may seem to others this is what I whole heartedly believe. I know that God is real. I have no doubt in my mind. Not because I just believe an idea blindly but because I know God. I haven?t seen him walking around. He hasn?t stopped me from using my own freewill but he has answered my prayers, and proven to me he is there time and time again. He lives in my heart and all around me. Once I was blind to him but now I can feel his presence everyday. When I pray to God I no longer pray to him like he?s in a far away place. As if I were writing a letter to someone that won?t get my message right away. Ex: Dear God, where ever you are? please do this for me so I can do that? etc. (I actually started to pray out loud that way once and laughed at myself because it sounded so absurd.) I talk to him or pray to him as if he were there beside me. Because he is there. And he answers me in his own subtle little ways. Can I prove it to anyone? Not really. He has given me no way to prove it. I guess if I had my proof then I might interfere with the ?BIG PICTURE?.
    Instead he has given me a good life. No perfect by any means. I still have to endure the same trouble and pain everyone else does but he helps me when I need him.

    I think the next question would be:
    Q5.)Why does this go on for so long? Living a confusing life with little guidance and lots of pain and suffering all around us?

    (Remember, the pain and suffering we witness in our lives is not given to us from God but from each other and evil unloving spirits.)

    Time is a funny and confusing thing. It can seem so long but yet go by so fast. I?m only 27 but my life already feels like its flashing before my eyes. I remember asking my father how long an hour was when I was about 5 years old. Small children have such a short attention span. He tried to demonstrate. He told me what time it was and said what time it would be in 1 hour. He said start waiting right now and I?ll tell you when it has been an hour. That was one of the longest hours of my life. It seemed like an eternity. I constantly asked him, ?Has it been an hour yet?. No he replied. How bout now? Nope. Finally! An hour had passed. Wow I said. An hour is a long time.
    However, the older I get the faster time seems to fly by. I get busy going about my normal life and loose track of the time, the day, then the week flies by, before I know it, it?s the year 2000. 2001, 2002, and now 2005. Where have the last few years gone? It doesn?t seem like it was that long ago since I was that small boy asking my father how long an hour was. But yet I also see how mush I?ve been thru since then and its amazing.


    Time can appear to last forever but it also passes us by so quickly we cannot hold on to the moment. I?ve became somewhat of a history buff the last few years. Before world history seemed so overwhelming that it was almost annoying. But the more I learn about our past, the more it paints a bigger picture for me. I remember seeing documentaries about ancient mummies and Egyptian pyramids that seemed so long ago I couldn?t imagine it. But now I realize that time was not as long ago as I once seemed. I can see how time has just flown by from the beginning to our ancestors, to our parents to us and now my children. Before I know it my children will be grown, and have children of their own. Eventually it will come to an end and seem like it just passed us by. We?ve just entered the space age now. A few more generations and we?ll explore space. Then there will be nothing little left for us to explore. And possible and end to time as we know it.

    Then we can all get together and reflect what we?ve done thru all of history.
    Judgment? We?ll see sooner or later.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Chance

    In the scenario you described, it looks like the creation is running the show and God is reacting to them. I believe each man has an individual will, but I don't think it is free. We may want something, but God is in total control of weather we get it or not.

    The problem is, if man has free will in anything, that means God in bound (helpless in that area). So we have to ask the question "Who has free will, God or man?

    D Dog

  • Puternut
    Puternut

    Why am I reading this post?

    Why am I reading this post?

    Why am I reading this post?

    Look ... no editing !!!

    Puternut

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Chance

    (Remember, the pain and suffering we witness in our lives is not given to us from God but from each other and evil unloving spirits.)

    I hope you have a verse for that. Cause my bible says:

    Isa 45:7

    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things .

    D Dog

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    >> Kind of a see it to believe it thing. Don?t you agree?
    >> If that were the case then God?s plan for our freewill
    >> simply wouldn?t work. Why? Because after everyone has
    >> seen that God is real with their own eyes it wouldn?t
    >> effectively give them a chance to choose to love him
    >> with their own freewill.

    But that's the deal Adam and Eve had at the beginning, wasn't it? They (or at least Adam) knew of God directly, they apparently spoke to one another. God didn't consider that direct evidence of his existence to be a problem. Why would it be different now?

    Thank you for taking the time to discuss this, by the way. I appreciate your views. You've obviously thought it through quite a bit.

    I guess I can't really see where you're coming from with the respect versus fear thing. God garners no respect from his very conspicuous abscence in people's lives. He would gain much respect by doing something, anything, to make people's lives better. Any "God helped me" stories invariably involve something they did for themselves, or someone did for them. But if God stopped a tsunami, that would win him some friends, I'd bet.

    On the other hand, the Bible says "serve God or die" which appeals only to the fear side of the discussion.

    Kinda rambling here, sorry.

    Dave

  • Heatmiser
    Heatmiser
    What is the meaning of life?

    42

  • chappy
    chappy

    What If:

    You could not die

    You couldn't be hurt

    Everything was free (provided)

    You could have everyything you wanted

    You could know anything

    You could do anything (no consequences)

    There were no limits

    All this were true of everyone else

    No danger. No searching. No challenges. No improving. No goals. No meaning.

    Sounds like an empty, boring, useless existance to me, yet many think this is how a 'loving Creator" either would or should have made us.

    chappy

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