by teejay 52 Replies latest jw friends
The Nourishment for the Spirit thread lists some outstanding books that do not embrace and either/or philosophy. Evolution and science are not mutually exclusive to a belief in God. Glad someone cleared up the Nietzche quote.
..............................."NIETZCHE IS DEAD."
---God
.
Eusebius,
I think the article at http://atheism.about.com/library/weekly/aa042600a.htm is a good reply to your joke:
Yes, Nietzsche certainly wrote the words "God is dead," but he also just as certainly put them in the mouth of a character - a madman, no less. Readers must always be careful about distinguishing between what an author thinks and what characters are made to say.Unfortunately, many people aren't so careful, and thus it has become part of popular culture to think that Nietzsche said "God is dead." It has even become the butt of jokes, with some people imagining themselves clever by putting into the mouth of their god the words "Nietzsche is dead."
But what does Nietzsche's madman really mean? He can't merely mean to say that there are atheists in the world - that's nothing new. He can't mean to say that God has literally died because that wouldn't make any sense. If God were really dead, then God must have been alive at one point - but if the God of orthodox European Christianity were alive then it would be eternal and could never die.
So apparently, this madman can't be talking about the literal God believed in by so many theists. Instead, he's talking about what this god represented for European culture, the shared cultural belief in God which had once been its defining and uniting characteristic.
- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]
I think most of YOU are dead spiritually.
FredMAul:
I think you are SICK mentally.
ONE...
bigboi
"it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia
Hello, Ken,
When you look at creation everything that lives, dies. This includes the sun, planets, stars and complete solar systems. Unless there is a God somplace who intervenes, this whole human race will die out, in time ... When I try to visualize God I realize that it is impossible for my mind to think in terms of no beginning, or spirit entity in another dimension, with no limits of power and inteligence.
Those are the types of things that crossed my mind when my friend and I talked last Christmas. A being with no beginning was always a whole lot more troubling for me than one that had no end. The 'no end' part I could mentally grasp -- it's something we all contemplate and hope for personally and why we have such a hard time with death, expecting and wanting life to continue. But no beginning? When I was a kid, I could never quite get my mind around that concept. Still, as you said, everything I've known has come to its end, whether loved ones or buildings of steel and concrete that I thought would last forever. Everything else dies... why not god?
Could it be that we are unable to understand these things, sort of like a dog understanding a computer? If this is the case and God doesn't reveal himself in a way that we can understand, then we are left to our own imagination.
Ah, good point, but remember... the religionists tell us that humans were made in god's image. We were the crowning work of his creative achievement. Your analogy, putting us on a dog's level when compared to god, doesn't fit for me. I was always taught that we are higher than that.
Yet most of us he has left in the dark as to his identity and purpose and has charged a select few -? supposedly -- to pass on his revelations. Rhetorical question for god: Why not take our over-imagination out of the picture and just speak to all of us in some way? It's a puzzle I pointed out to Shelby (SJ) on the How do the anointed know they are? thread. God ain't NEVER talked to me, and her explanations for why don't add up.
I've just about given up on trying to understand the meaning of life, I will just live out what's left the best way I can to enjoy it without hurting anyone else. Too bad we can't ask God WHY and get an answer.
I agree with your every word in this. I'd love to know the answers but since they aren't likely to come (they haven't come to anyone else, either, imo) I've decided to live the best way I can, being the best person and father that I can be. It's a worthy goal, one that I feel I can reach. Hey, I'm not complainin'... life could be a lot worse, and for some, it is.
peace,
todd ~ counting his blessings
Tj,
This is a really interesting thread.
***A being with no beginning was always a whole lot more troubling for me than one that had no end.***
I have had just the opposite quandry. The mere gazing up at the stars, sends me into a dizzy about the assumption, or should I say fact, that there is no end......infinity?
***Why not take our over-imagination out of the picture and just speak to all of us..***
You can say that again. The writer of Revelation in the Bible has little to brag about, in comparison to the over active imaginations, of thousands of self-appointed revealer's of God's thoughts. Every generation has had them, every generation in the futue will as well. It just so happened that a particular few CTR, JR, NH, FF, and the now composite revealer's GOVERNING BODY of the empire of Jw World, have foisted their imaginations, on me and my family, damn them. So it is a more personal matter to me, and everyone else who has had to suffer from their little exercise of God revealing. I guess that is why I can barely tolerate, anyone that claims to have a special pipeline to God. I say buyer beware.
Like you I will wait for a very unambiguous, clear and consise, HELLO THIS IS GOD SPEAKING...before I ever turn over my life and will to another revealer.
Danny
Hey All:
The more you think about it, ya kinda get the impression that the whole God religion thing started after a caveman ate something contaminated by ergot of something. Maybe it's all the result af a really bad trip.
Religion....it's your brain on drugs. LOL!!!!!
ONE....
bigboi
"it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia
Hi teejay,
You wanted me to finish my thoughts, so here it goes. Keep in mind, I don't like to post large letters. When we are born, we need our mother's comfort. She protects us, holds us, and feeds us. When we grow, we look to others to help keep us safe, through family, school teachers, police, friends, etc. As adults, we seek out somebody for a mate, look for a home, and stable employment. All these things are for our comfort. When people turn toward religion, it is to find comfort, because we want to know if there is a way to be comforted when we die. I believe that is where the idea for Gods originated. We want there to be sombody for us when we die. As humans, we also want to have more and better. So we hope Heaven or Paradise, or whatever is better than what we have now. All the time we are seeking comfort. I think that is all I have to comment about this topic. Like I said, I am not one for writing a lot.
A recovering Jehovah's Witness. Kinda like alcohol, but not as fun. Just ask J. Rutherford.
Hi Fred,
Just what does it mean to be alive spiritually? Do we have a spiritual part of our being, contrary to the teaching of the Org.
Is not your spiritually just some thoughts that you have been fed by someone else who thinks they are spiritual advisors.
What happens to your spirituality when you get mentally diseased, or injured to the head and can't think normally?
How do we know that there is such a thing as a spirit? It would seem that there would be some evidence of a spirit, sort of like the wind when you can feel the breeze. Why would an angel need wings as the bible depicts at times? Why would spirits need humans to inhabit as described by the bible and then ask for pigs when they couldn't stay in the man in the graveyard, then when in the swine jump over the cliff?
Spirituality, what is it?
Ken P.
Undecided
Why would spirits need humans to inhabit as described by the bible
It's not that angels "need humans to inhabit". It's sorta like we males don't need other males in order to have our sexual appetites satisfied, yet some stoop to the level of homosexuality. In the same way, some of the angels (demons) aren't content with the way they were created and they envy the pleasures that mankind is able to enjoy due to being 'flesh'. In order to experience such sensations they have to "inhabit" a human of course.
