by LittleToe 114 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • LittleToe

    The media have a huge role in this. I suspect it's pandemic

    Sorry. The intent wasn't to put anyone under the magnifying glass - it was for personal application, if anyone felt it might help them. Maybe we can concentrate on your example, instead
    Though, just to complete your own case, it looks like your irritation was a good tool to overcome fear and allow you to act in the manner you needed to.


    Give me a break! I'm typing as fast as I can.

    Sorry, dude

    I'm just playing with the concepts here, to see if this helps, so please don't take offense:

    I wonder, if, the amount we percieve that we are loved, could have a greater effect?

    Doesn't this then take things into the realm of the subjective and potentially irrational?

    In the case of fear of physical reprisals from parents (in the example that Xena suggested), we might remain in that hold-state without truly "knowing" anything.

    <theological mode>

    In the case of God, is His love for us a subjective thing (we are only loved while we "feel" it, otherwise we ought to fear), or by "faith" is it an objective thing?
    Is it by experience that we grow in understanding of this love, so that we fear less and love more?

    I would posit that perhaps fear of God, especially (but not exclusively) in connection with the schoolmaster of "the law", can lead us to God. However, once we have embraced that "love", fear subsides being replaced with familial affection.

    </theological mode>

    Excellent points.

  • JamesThomas

    Interesting thread Ross.

    I have found there to be natural, instinctive and hardwired fear, an important tool in the bodies arsenal of self-preservation e.g.: fear of fire and danger. Then, there is a creature of an entirely different color: psychological fear. This seeming little demon is often hidden, and can be a foundation for much of our egoic false identity.

    If we stop and silently examine uncomfortable emotions, gross ones like anger and hatred, and subtle ones like loneliness and boredom, just beneath we will likely discover fear. What is this fear? What does it feel like in the body? What thoughts are generally associated with it? Is it really what we are? Does it have to be so often the ruler and motivator of our lives? Can we get to really know fear in an open, friendly and nonjudgmental communion? Exposed such, would it still have such power then? And if we look deeper still, what is at the core of fear? Who am I, really?

    Perhaps fear can be a freeing doorway, and not such a nasty little shit after all.


  • LittleToe

    James:Beautifully put, and at the heart of the biblical "fear God" concepts, I believe (or at least my interpretation of them ) - albeit still a step away from what you ultimately propose.

    I earlier mentioned a motivator for change, that can be put the other way around:
    When the fear to go becomes greater than the fear to stay, there's a motivation to act.

    Whilst this works, I have concerns that for some the stress is unbearable, and it often STILL doesn't discover the root causes of fear.
    It causes action, but it doesn't necessarily follow onto self-observation. The end result is a change of circumstances, but no strides are taken forwards in "knowing thyself".

  • JamesThomas

    I would agree that generally the stress of deep fears are destructive rather than liberating. Perhaps this is because society supports the false concept that these fears are part of what we are and that there is something wrong with us that needs healing or fixing. Seldom do we hear guidance which supports the shifting of attention inwards that there may be a meeting with our darkest fears; that they may be seen as a blessing rather than an enemy.

    Society (and I mean that to imply most all that supports our fragile broken entity status), is often fueled by fear. We are continually programed with fear, and have little reason for "knowing thyself", because we already thing and believe we DO know ourself (as the fragile broken entity); and the media and those we interact with generally support this.

    Is this what you were talking about, or did I just fly out there someplace?


  • LittleToe

    James:Aye, you're exactly on wavelength.
    You've brought it nicely round to the root of my intent (and in language that likely shouldn't throw Six for a loop, too much ).

    In my original post, I'm not promoting ignoring "fears", but rather confronting them.
    We all use various "tools" to do this, if we are going to get anything done, but I prefer to look at them as objectively as possible (without fear, as it were) and work through what is happening internally and externally.

    That doesn't mean that if I'm attacked I'm not going to have a "fight or flight" response, but that isn't really the level I'm thinking of.

    I guess I'm positing that much of what we would describe as fear is a false image (In My Humble Opinion), that can often be overcome (also IMHO).

    (can you tell that I'm putting words onto some of these concepts, on the fly, as we discuss it? LOL)

  • JamesThomas

    "I prefer to look at them as objectively as possible (without fear, as it were)".

    Yes, is That, which is looking -- at all fearful?!

    With some quite observation it can be seen that the exact conscious-awareness which reads this now, is not really touched or affected by anything at all.

    Underneath the surface reflection ("false image") of fear, anger, separateness, fragility, wounds and brokenness -- is there a pristine all-embracing Wholeness which we all truly are?

    Ross, you understandably use words like "confronting" and "over coming"; however, I have found that putting up ones sword -- is most conducive to clear seeing. Rather than enter into inner investigation with a any sense or need to confront or overcome, perhaps we can welcome our demons in an clear atmosphere of kind nonjudgmental acceptance. Could it be that they are not the mean and destructive little bastards they appear to be? but rather more like frightened and injured little children who desperately long for our warm and loving acceptance and embrace?

    It has been said that when you can look the Devil in the eye, and see the Christ, you are Home.


  • LittleToe

    Now you're describing the next layer in/out/shake it all about. Ogres are like onions, remember - not parfait!!! (cf Shrek)

    It has been said that when you can look the Devil in the eye, and see the Christ, you are Home.

    I've not heard that quote before. Do you recall who it's attributed to?

  • czarofmischief

    Many people are constrained by fear of embarassment.

    Which is odd, since it ain't that bad. Actually, there's a perverse pleasure in discomfiting yourself and others; as well as satisfaction in standing up for principle, such as the Freedom of Farting.

    Also, I conquered a great deal of stage fright by learning to enjoy the sensation of being afraid. My addiction to horror movies began at the same time - the actual sensation of being afraid is actually pretty nice. Like S and M for the soul, y'know?

    There are also the problem of dread, which is unfocused tension regarding a potential situation or problem. I haven't managed to beat this one yet. Going for a run and chanting, "I am Demon" tends to help... Just asserting my control over a great deal in my life, empowering myself through exercise and (soon) martial arts training (signing up for kickboxing to help get ready for basic).

    Also cleaning the house can help find that control.

    Oddly enough, LOSING control in a controlled way can help - like getting a little sloshed and still maintaining is a powerful act in itself.


  • JamesThomas

    "next level"?

    Yes, there seems to be a habit of going deeper, too deep for most people. Perhaps this is because various "levels" are really nonexistent. They are simply little blankies and comfort areas that the mind has created that it may endlessly entertain itself and distract itself from actually jumping into the fire.

    It only takes one millisecond of total and complete surrender that the all-embracing, ALREADY AND ALWAYS EXISTING, Truth of our Being and identity is revealed. Why beat around the bush? Why continually support and reinforce some idea that we are not already the Wholeness that we seek? Why make a long arduous journey of it? when actually there is no where to go?

    The fact is, the false identity, the "me", is deeply afraid and kicks into self-preservation overdrive. We are afraid to realize our true and natural existence because it comes at the cost of everything we cherish and believe ourselves to be. Who would we be without our personal little gods and relationships? Who would we be without our beloved little self who is so special and unique from the entire rest of the universe?

    We create a grand spiritual journey, and endlessly theorize, philosophize and theologies, that we stay special and comfortable in our knowable little selves. What we truly are is endlessly vast and without form. No little entity in it's right mind would venture there. For to enter is to dissolve and die.

    This is the core FEAR; and all other fears rely and feed upon it.

    Sorry Ross, I don't know where that saying came from originally. No doubt from someone who had jumped into the fire.

    Please don't think this is a personal attack dear Ross. It's not. I'm just making what I feel is a very important point, the only way I know how.

  • JamesThomas

    To stopthepain, who pm'd me about this thread.

    Sorry, but I am unable to send replies to pm's with the browser I use, so I'll just reply here and say: I wish I was as wise at your age.


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