Prevalence of JW Suicides - Real or Imagined?

by AMNESIAN 82 Replies latest jw friends

  • Faraon
    Faraon
    They don't get depression from nothing that's added on. What do the Witnesses add? Go to the meetings, oh please, that's just basic stuff. Go out in service, hello? Didn't JC command that?

    Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"
    That is one more of the spurious verses on the bible.
    It commands the apostles to baptize in the name of the trinity (sounds good to JW ears doesn't it).
    Why is it then that it took them so long to teach the nations?
    If this was the case, the apostles should have immediately started to go out of Judea and start teaching the goy, but it actually took them years just to baptize Cornelious. Cornelious was not even taught by Christians.
    There is not even a record of him reading a Watchtower or an Awake!
    No record of him having to answer the hundred or so questions by three elders.
    Not even having to publish for at least three months, attending all five meetings.
    No record of him being baptized in the name of the WTBS.
    Peter had to make a case for baptizing a non-Jew.
    Anyway, this long wait proves that Jessie never wanted his sect to teach all the nations.

    JRP
    If I wanted your opinion, I would beat it out of you (seen in a bumper sticker)

  • spider
    spider

    I think people were depressed in the witnesses but were unable to define it.Kind of like a child that feels anger,sadness or jelousy but does not have the vocabulary or experience to be able to quantify or understand these feelings.
    Witnesses are very often not aware of the pressure they are being put under.They are not aware of the mind control.They are not aware of the others that were also depressed.
    Negetive feelings were not to be tolerated.If they existed then it was our fault.Jehovah's people are a HAPPY people.
    Feelings though have a way of coming out.Personally this is why I think so many people I knew suffered from "chronic fatigue syndrome".It is not a sign of a healthy mind when it begins to shut down.I do not think this illness was not isolated to our congregation.

  • soylibre
    soylibre

    There is a video called "Mental Health and Jehovah's Witnesses" put together by an ex-JW elder, who happens to be a Phd, clinical psychologist....according to him rates of mental illness are much higher amongst JWs....

    Suicide....I personally knew 3 people...
    1. wife of elder who was abused by JW parents...wents nuts and hung herself in a mental hospital...parents have never been brought before a Judicial Committee...even though her brothers who are elders remember the abuse that went on in the home.
    2.Son of an elder...married with a young son...went to the assembly to hear his son do the bible reading, went home at intermission and hung hisself....wife found him after assembly.
    3.Young man who I knew since his adolesence...was df'd at about age 16, mother totally cut him off, father was a wife abusing elder...step father JW with a porno-habit....mother...really thinks she's doing the "right" thing..hung hisself about 6 weeks ago, he would have been about 24..left behind an infant son.

    All victims of the BORG!

    Kevin, Starla and Cameron....I'll never forget them....

  • apostate
    apostate

    A young brother comitted cuicide last week in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. Also an elder around 1995 in Guelph, Ontario, Canada. Nobody knows why, the Elders intimidating everyone who dares to ask.

  • tergiversator
    tergiversator

    GodRules,

    All people who leave the witnesses are proud. That's why they are willing to consider the possibility that what they sincerely believed to be the truth might not be true, if other evidence overwhelmingly contradicts it. That's why they put up with the hate and scorn of their former brothers and publicly admit to the world that they were wrong.

    All witnesses are humble. That's why they tell everyone else that they're going to die at Armageddon (and have their eyeballs plucked out) if they don't accept every single one of their doctrines, down to the last nuance of an antitypical fulfillment of an obscure minor prophet in a talk at a forgotten convention 70 years ago. That's why they will never ever ever listen to anyone else's point of view, except with the view of how to bring them around to their own.

    The witnesses are God's organization because they're God's organization. They say so, and who would doubt God's organization? Anyone who disagrees is going against God and should be summarily shot. But, since the laws of the land don't permit that, we'll just pretend you don't exist. La, la, la, I can't hear you. Our way is so obviously good and just that anyone who disagrees must be crazy.

    Did I get that right? Tell me if I misread your post.

    I think the wonder of the whole matter is that there aren't more witness suicides. It speaks volumes about the resiliency of the human spirit even under the most irreconcilable doublethink.

    -T., who thinks "GodRules" is a rather prideful name.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    No one has thought to mention the 10,000 or so dubs who committed de-facto suicide by refusing blood and blood products. Or the unknown number who died because they were forbidden to accept vaccinations or organ transplants.

    Farkel

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer
    blood transfusions: this one is just common sence. JW's choose to respect Jehovah's view of life.

    GodRules,

    Are Jehovah’s Witnesses respecting Jehovah’s view of life or the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society’s imposition of God’s view of life? You tell us:

    "[Jehovah’s Witnesses] would not accept a blood substitute which contained a major component of blood such as red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets, plasma or hemoglobin. However, as to a blood substitute which contained a minor blood derivative such as albumin, immue globulins, or cloting factors, each individual Jehovah’s Witness would decide whether to accept it or not."—Bailey R and Ariga T [of Hospital Information Services, Watchtower Bible & Tract Society], The view of Jehovah's Witnesses on blood substitutes. Artif Cells Blood Substit Immobil Biotechnol 1998; 26: 571-576, [Bold added]

    "Acceptance of derivatives of any of these major blood components, including albumin, clotting factors, immunoglobulins, and haemoglobin based oxygen carriers, is a matter for each Witness patient to decide."—Paul Wade [Director, Hospital Information Services, Watchtower Bible & Tract Society (Britain)], Changes in policy of refusal of blood by Jehovah's Witnesses. BMJ 2001;322:1123 (5 May) [Bold added]

    Page 27 of The Watchtower of October 15, 2000 said of George Storrs: "Finally, since no one could refute the things he was learning, George Storrs decided that he could not be faithful to God if he remained in the Methodist Church."

    Can you refute information contained at the Web site www.jwbloodreview.org. ? If so, show us. And, please, use sound argumentation. We are watching, and waiting.

  • r51785
    r51785
    Of course everyone gets depressed. I get depressed everytime I pay my bills, how the damn electric company takes advantage of people with their high rates, how the phone company screws you if you don't have a special long distance plan.

    I get depressed everytime I have to fill up the gas tank of my car. I get depressed when after a long night of sleep, my body still aches and I feel more tired than when I went to bed. I'm depressed that I have to pay over 800 dollars of taxes every friecking month plus 250 dollars more for taxes from my house.

    You seem overly concerned about material things. Perhaps you should follow the advice of Jesus Christ:

    Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. -- Matthew 6:27 (NIV)
  • larc
    larc

    I have thought about this subject a lot over the years, and I believe their are many ingredients in the Witness life that contribute to depression and suicide, which I think makes the incidence much higer than in the population at large. Some of these have been mentioned before and some have provided personal examples. Nontheless, I would like to present my views, though somewhat redundant.

    First of all, it is a religion of works, not faith. The works are very clear cut and measureble. There are two major problems here. First of all, whatever works you do, you can and alway should do more. If you put in 10 hours in service, you should strive for 12. When you reach twelve then you should strive for 14, and on and on and on. You are preached to so much on this issure of further striving that after awhile, not one has to push you anymore. You push yourself. As a result, no matter how much you do, you have this nagging feeling that you have not done enough. You are unworthy, and you will not survive Armageddon. If you asked JWs, what they really thought in their heart, I would bet that most of them think that they will not survive Armageddon, because they are unworthy and they did not do enough. Obviously, this will make a person depressed.

    This problem is further exaserbated by the fact that there is only one acceptable form of "works", and that is the door to door work. The fact is, that many people either due to temperment or talent are not very good at it. If you are shy person and are not very good or comfortable in the art of persuasian, then the work is a burden and you will have difficulty making your numbers and you will be judged as spiritually weak. Another source of depression.

    Now, let us suppose you are weak at the Witness work, but have many other strengths. Can you use these other talents to show your sincerity and zealousness. Of course not. It is because, you see, showing any talent in any other area of human enveavor draws to much attention to yourself. You are showing pride, and you need to be humbled. Can this be a source of depression. I certainly think so.
    Do you think that you might get depressed years later when you realized that you could make useful contributions, but you didn't because you were told not to. That can be depressing to think about.

    Then of course, there are all the things you can't do. I've seen lists of these before, but LDH's list on this thread is the most complete list I have seen. I will restrict myself to the descussion of celebrations. In the real world people celebrate birthdays and holiday because it brings them together, makes them feel special, renews them and gives them joy. Since Witness are not supposed to feel special, this source of renewal and joy is cut off from them. Could this lack of the sources of renewal, when one is feeling "down", contribute to the development of chronic depression and feeling of isolation. No doubt.

    With all of these factors working against you, you are made to feel worse because you are told from the platform and in print that you should be happy. If you are not, there is something is wrong with you. Now, you look around at your brothers and sisters and they are all smiling, even though they might be dying inside. This facade you see further reinforces your feeling of inadequacy and worthlessness. They are happy and I am not. There is something wrong with me. This is bound to make you feel worse. Is there anyone you can talk to about this? Of course not, you can't share your weakness with others. They will look down on you, and furthermore you don't want to run the risk of stumbling them over your spiritual weakness. Are you now further entrenched in your depression? Yes you are, and there doesn't seem to be any way out. Why live in misery, when you are going to die soon at Armageddon anyway. Being asleep in death does not seem like a bad alternative.

  • Maximus
    Maximus

    I've known an extraordinary number of persons who were not simply acquaintances that have committed suicide. Part of this is my longevity in the organization, partly because I have traveled extensively and thus had more exposure. Either way, the figures are statistically off the charts.

    I've discussed this at great length with two professionals who are not JWs but very familiar with their beliefs, one a psychiatrist the other Leo Booth, Episcopalian priest, addiction specialist, and author of "When God Becomes a Drug." They both agree completely with what Larc has presented. I need not repeat the dynamics, because Larc has laid them out beautifully, and LDH's list is indeed comprehensive.

    I need to emphasize a point: There is a vast difference between the suicide threat or attempt as a cry for help and the obsessive, compulsive rumination that ends in death. None should dare trivialize another's pain by making an unprofessional judgement without training; please seek professional help if you or someone you love has more than just the hills and valleys of life.

    My experience tells me this: The final impulsive act is almost invariably one of complete despair. The pain of hanging on has become worse than the pain of letting go. Nature itself urges, yes compels self-preservation. Thus, the person who suicides is desperately ill, by definition. S/he sees no better choice.

    Family members generally tell me the deceased could see no viable solution, despite their reassurances. Most tell me there were scant signs.

    Experts refer to JW "toxic faith." In my experience, the longer and more deeply the person is exposed to toxins, the more difficult the recovery. When one finds that one's basic belief system is a lie, that's bad enough. But to face the shredding of family ties may be the ultimate.

    Much of Western religious thought has been shaped by a warped Augustinian view of sin and punishment that inclines toward depression. The Christian message was originally one of freedom, and joy. That's another story.

    Side bar: Clinical depression is different from the normal blahs. Modern medicine has a panoply, a variety of approaches to both chemical and mental imbalance. It's not just about Prozac any more. It's okay to ask for help.

    I'm thinking about so many just now. Hayden Covington's beautiful son. Richard Wheelock, the factory overseer who jumped while at Bethel. So many.

    And C. Whose quiet pain upon having her children and grandchildren forever ripped from her was unknown to others; she did not show it. Until she as quietly lay in a garage and ended it all, unwittingly also ending the life of her husband who lay sleeping in the bedroom above. Numbers? They would shock and titillate. I grieve for far too many dead, and their survivors.

    As to responsibility? Know what? I think Dunscot made a good point today:

    ::2) I think that God will hold His representatives responsible for abusing their respective offices. A proper enunciation of God's law is supposed to emanate from the mouths of God's representatives (Mal 2:7).

    Amen.

    Maximus

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