gdt,
From one fellow Aussie to another, and I am sure you will be able to relate to this term - how about?
Braindead fuckwits.
Seems an appropriate alternate name for the beloved brothers.
cheeses - of-the-caring-and-and-sharing-class.
If You Could Rename Jehovah's Witnesses What Would You Call 'em?
by Incense_and_Peppermints 61 Replies latest jw friends
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gaiagirl
How about the "Jah'liban"? Also, regarding congregations being couseled to lie, I clearly remember service meeting parts on which stories were given about JW's in Nazi Germany who were hiding bibles and WT literature, etc in their homes. When asked by German soldiers if they had any of such, they said "NO". How is this not a lie? Further, on other service meeting parts, the example of Rahab (who concealed the Israelite spies, then lied about it to the men of the city who were there searching for those same spies, and led to the overthrow of Jericho) was often held up as an example of how sometimes it WAS good to lie. There was a term used to describe such a situation, get this...a THEOCRATIC LIE! Anyone who doesn't view the WTBTS as liars is either ignorant of the facts, or a liar themself.
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gaiagirl
How about the "Jah'liban"? Also, regarding congregations being couseled to lie, I clearly remember service meeting parts on which stories were given about JW's in Nazi Germany who were hiding bibles and WT literature, etc in their homes. When asked by German soldiers if they had any of such, they said "NO". How is this not a lie? Further, on other service meeting parts, the example of Rahab (who concealed the Israelite spies, then lied about it to the men of the city who were there searching for those same spies, and led to the overthrow of Jericho) was often held up as an example of how sometimes it WAS good to lie. There was a term used to describe such a situation, get this...a THEOCRATIC LIE! Anyone who doesn't view the WTBTS as liars is either ignorant of the facts, or a liar themself.
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Abaddon
gdt
I suggest reviewing the societies teaching on lying might be beneficial for you. The following examples were taken from http://quotes.watchtower.ca/index.htm but are all quotations from Society publications; I have added empahsis;
***Insight, Volume 2 pp.244-5 Lie ***
LIE
The opposite of truth. Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person. A lie need not always be verbal. It can also be expressed in action, that is, a person may be living a lie.***Aid to Bible Understanding (1971) pp.1060-1061 ***
While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. Jesus Christ counseled "Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open." (Matt. 7 :6) That is why Jesus on certain occasions refrained from giving full information or direct answers to certain questions when doing so could have brought unnecessary harm. (Matt. 15 :1- 6 ; 21 :23-27 ; John 7 :3-10) Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab and Elisha in misdirecting or withholding full facts from nonworshipers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light. Gen. 12:10-19; chap. 20; 26:1-10; Josh. 2:1-6; Jas. 2:25; 2 Ki. 6:11-23.
*** Watchtower 1960 June 1 p.351 Questions from Readers ***
Questions from Readers
? From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian's obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given:God's Word commands: "Speak truth each of you with his neighbor." (Eph. 4:25) This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive [?] As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies.
*** Watchtower 1957 May 1 pp.285-286 Use Theocratic War Strategy ***
Use Theocratic War Strategy
A WITNESS of Jehovah was going from house to house in Eastern Germany when she met a violent opposer. Knowing at once what to expect she changed her red blouse for a green one in the very next hallway. No sooner had she appeared on the street than a Communist officer asked her if she had seen a woman with a red blouse. No, she replied, and went on her way. Did she tell a lie? No, she did not. She was not a liar. Rather, she was using theocratic war strategy, hiding the truth by action and word for the sake of the ministry.In this she had good Scriptural precedent. Did not Rahab hide the Israelite spies by both action and word? Did not Abraham, Isaac, David and others likewise hide the truth at times when faced with a hostile enemy? They certainly did, and never do we read a word of censure for their doing so. Rather, we read of their being termed exemplary servants of Jehovah. Their actions were in line with Jesus' wise counsel: "Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves."-Matt. 10:16, NW.
Perhaps some will wonder as to where the line is to be drawn between use of theocratic war strategy in hiding the truth and the telling of lies. First of all, let it be noted that whenever one takes an oath to tell the truth he is obligated to do so. By dedicating himself to do God's will each Christian has taken a vow or made an oath to do God's will and to be faithful to him. To this oath he certainly must be true. Likewise, when a Christian is placed on a witness stand he is obligated to speak the truth if he speaks at all. At times he may prefer to refuse to speak and suffer the consequences rather than betray his brothers or the interests of God's work. And, of course, there is no occasion for use of war strategy when dealing with our Christian brothers. In dealing with them we tell the truth or tactfully remind them that what they seek to know does not concern them.
Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent.
A great work is being done by the witnesses even in lands where their activity is banned. The only way they can fulfill the command to preach the good news of God's kingdom is by use of theocratic war strategy. By underground methods the literature is brought into the country and distributed. Would it make sense to hide this literature by one's actions and then reveal its whereabouts by one's words when queried? Of course not! So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good.
Today God's servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God's servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God's kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work.
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blondie
Not wanting to hijack the thread, but since I brought up the name Liars:
In the December 1, 2004 WT, page 9, it says:
Rahab protects the spies at the risk of her life because she has come to have faith in Jehovah. Therefore, she is under no obligation to divulge the spies' whereabouts to men who are seeking to harm God's people. (Matthew 7:6; 21:23-27; John 7:3-10). In fact, Rahab was "declared righteous by works," including the act of misdirecting the emissaries of the king.--James 2:24-26.
Where does "therefore" come in? Where is the connecting reasoning? If you have faith in God, we can lie, misdirect, mislead, non-worshippers of God?
My experience is that JWs are just supposed to refuse to answer not give misleading information.
w02 5/1 p. 16 Jehovah Hates the Course of Treachery ***
However, we have reason for caution. We could miss the lessons that are implicit in Malachi 2:1-9. Are we personally alert, so that no unrighteousness is found on our lips? For example, can our family members really trust what we say? Can our spiritual brothers and sisters in the congregation do the same? It would be easy to develop the habit of couching one?s words in terms that are technically accurate but misleading. Or one might exaggerate or hide details in a business matter. Would Jehovah not see that? And if we followed such practices, would he accept sacrifices of praise from our lips?
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confusedjw
New Name: 1914er's
As to lying, I was helping my son a few years ago on the bible reading where Abraham tells the bad folks his wife is his sister. The Aid book was full of bullshit twists to justify this (sorry Ray and Ed). I finally had to say to my son that Abraham lied and it was wrong. We presented it that was in the talk.
The consequence is interesting as the bad guys get in trouble with God for thinking of doing stuff with Sarah and the heathen king rebukes Abraham for lying to them about this and almost causing them to sin.
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blondie
(not only that ConfusedJW, Abraham obviously didn't trust God and his power/wisdom to handle the situation without lying)
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garybuss
gdt, So I take it you agree with the Watch Tower guidelines and see nothing wrong with being willfully deceptive as long as you do not technically tell a lie. Your reply highlights the point of the article. The Witness people I know see honesty and deception as two unrelated separate issues. I rest my case.
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stillajwexelder
Pedophilelovers
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codeblue
Governing Body Witnesses