The doctrine of the Tri-Part man.

by LittleToe 65 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • LittleToe

    Wouldn't that be after the ascension?

  • SixofNine

    Yeah LT, and then you'd have a butt with Hillary Step's initials on it, which would make it all the more special.

  • Narkissos


    According to Luke, yes, but then it should be on earth all the same... (what's the use of Holy Spirit in heaven, btw?).

    Notice that in Mark the story of Jesus' baptism (originally an adoption story) implies his being filled with Spirit: "he saw the heavens torn apart and the Spirit descending like a dove into (eis) him."

  • LittleToe

    In that sense "God" is ever-present. The diagram only really illustrates the incarnation.
    With regard to the "adoption story" he was still Jesus before that, though, yes? Or are we saying that he only became incarnate at the time of baptism?
    Good point on the "dove", though - strange how only John saw it

    Yeah, and then you'd have to kiss it, my lil pointy-headed friend

  • gumby
    my lil pointy-headed friend

    Hey now....only KGB had the pointy head! LOL. I still laugh me arse off when he and sixer went at it.

    *coughs*.......carry on folks......................


  • Narkissos
    In that sense "God" is ever-present. The diagram only really illustrates the incarnation.
    With regard to the "adoption story" he was still Jesus before that, though, yes? Or are we saying that he only became incarnate at the time of baptism?

    "Incarnation" is a later concept derived from John 1:14. It hardly suits the NT as a whole.

    There is clearly an adoptionist christology, still held by both Judeo-Christians and Gnostics ("Cerinthus") in the 2nd-century, perceptible in the baptism story. Jesus becomes the Son of God at that point. "And a voice came from heaven, "You are my Son, the Beloved; with you I am well pleased." This is even clearer in the Western variant of Luke 3:22: "You are my Son, today I have begotten you." (cf. Psalm 2:7).

    Another ancient christology made Jesus the Christ at the resurrection (Romans 1:3f; Acts 2:36; 13:33). In the Synoptics the transfiguration, which has the same proclamation as baptism, could also be read as an adoption story. Only in Matthew's and Luke's infancy narratives Jesus is somehow made Son of God by birth.

    "The Word became flesh" occurs in John's Gospel which has neither birth, nor baptism, nor transfiguration narrative, and in which the crucifixion/raising is a revelatory process (the Son of Man is "lifted up", 3:13; 12:32). John's Jesus is actually the eternal Son of God or the Word, the question of time is meaningless. What he is he was to Abraham (8:58) and will be to his own after his raising ("On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you".) The "incarnation" is an everlasting mystery that is revealed in him (this is also reflected in 1 Timothy 3:16, "he was revealed in flesh").

    The later doctrine of incarnation was especially built up by Greek Fathers upon Johannine concepts. They share a common notion of time and eternity which is very different from ours. I think that's why I find your diagram somewhat reductionist, as well as the concepts of "before" or "after" incarnation.

  • ellderwho
    I think he became a tri-part man, like the rest of us. The significant difference being that his spirit was "God", of God, connected to God (?) rather than "man", of God, connected to God.

    Ok we have the flesh and spirit, now what of the soul? Jesus soul that somehow doesnt sound right.

  • NewLight2

    I have written some information on this subject. It is located on one of my web pages:

    Introduction: What is Man

    Have You Wondered - Part 1

    Have You Wondered - Part 2

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog


    LT wrote: Was the unity of the deity of godhead ever broken?
    DD wrote: Yes, when the Father forsook the Son.

    Are you sure you're answering the right question? I was explicitly talking about his deity.
    I believe his spirit was shrouded from his Soul / Body, and so he would feel the separation acutely.
    Let me start by saying Jesus never stopped being God. I do believe The Father forsook the Son completely (body, soul and spirit). I don't think that Jesus was separated from any part of His person (or his self), until his body died .

    It's not so much a matter of having relationships with the parts, any more than a hand has a distinct relationship with a fingernail

    . It is, if you are comparing us to The triune God.

    Maybe you'd like to answeer that qquestion, then

    "How can God die?" I can only say, that any part of the Trinity being separated, might fit the biblical definition of death. D Dog

  • Sirona


    Interesting topic!

    I'm a little late in the discussion but here goes.

    I think it's inherent in a body to have life. As far as the doctrine goes:

    • Plants have bodies
    • Animals have bodies and souls
    • Humans have bodies, souls and spirits

    I don't agree with that. I think that we're all made of the same stuff. Can you see auras? I see auras around inanimate objects, but I see stronger ones around living beings such as plants and animals. I think that plants have "a soul" albeit more basic than an animal "soul".

    Erm. how do I explain this? I think that the spirit we have is our own divine essence, imprinted with the fundamental thing which makes us "us". That isn't the personality of this lifetime, it is the thing which we take into every lifetime. Therefore, plants and animals have divine essence aswell. Everything has divine essence, even rocks...and their energy is also transformed if their physicality is destroyed.

    To say that humans are the only ones with "spirits" is elevating the human above the rest of creation, in fact, the rest of the universe. No, I think we're made of the same stuff, we're just more self aware. We have consciousness. As do some animals (higher primates, dolphins etc.)

    Just my opinion of course!


Share this