HELP!! Trying to find right religion brough up as JW

by emmamess22 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Sirona

    Hi Emma,

    Welcome to the board.

    I'll ask just one question about your comments about Christmas - "What doesn't have pagan roots?"

    Honestly, there are few things (IMHO) that *don't* have pagan roots. Every society is influenced very much by its pagan past. Just look at celtic symbols (seen everywhere in the UK), our calendar (pagan roots), "traditions" such as wearing a white bridal gown and having rings on our fingers as a symbol of marriage (again pagan), Even the way Christians take bread and wine is strikingly similar to older pagan customs of sharing bread and wine as body of God.

    Even the society themselves have published articles which say that to look for the pagan roots in everything is not worthwhile. The trouble is, they seem to want to choose which things it is OK for you to do. This is simply not allowing you to have your own Christian conscience (can you see the pattern of how they tell you how to live your life? this is about control, remember).

    Given that there are so many pagan influences, many Christians decided to change the ancient pagan festivals and make them Christian. This isn't wrong in my opinion. They are making it about Jesus, who according to the bible replaced the older pagan ways. Just as he replaced the old mosaic law (which noone says is "bad" they just say its "old and out of date now") Christians replaced festivals like Yule with Christmas. Isn't that a good thing from a Christian standpoint?

    As I said, if you were going to take out all of the pagan stuff then you'd find it near on impossible to live any sort of normal life! You'd be a hermit on some remote island if you wanted to avoid EVERYTHING that has pagan roots. Some say that the bible itself was greatly influenced by the pagan stories which existed at the time.

    Just read read read as much as you can about it all. Then you'll start to realise that there really isn't an "us or them" thing going on with God. At least that is what I think!


  • acsot

    Garybuss had some good suggestions as to research you should pursue; as for biblical authenticity and the WTS stand on certain doctrines, you should read some of Alan Feuerbacher?s articles at :

    He posts here as AlanF, look up some of his posts: go to ?Members? and click on his name, then start reading!

    And give yourself time!!!! You will find that your views change enormously as you wean yourself away from religious dogmatism and open yourself to new ideas/beliefs and just Being. In six months or a year you'll probably not even recognize yourself as you continue to grow and challenge yourself as well as your long-held views about God/Jesus/Bible, etc. etc.

    It may seem confusing as hell but this is quite an exciting time in your life; be open-minded and learn!! Do what the WTS told us we should never ever do: question their authority and read about other religions and faiths.

    And then, don't stop there. Read opposing points of view: agnostics, atheists, paganism (!), nature-based faith, Wicca. One of the previous posters here was Ravyn. Look up some of her posts about her past as a JW and her subsequent belief system. This is not to tell you to follow any of these people, but to give yourself the freedom of exploring everything that's out there. This board is a great place to do that.

    You're just starting on one of life's greatest adventures! Have fun with it!

  • Doubtfully Yours
    Doubtfully Yours

    There's not one true religion, in my opinion. There is a religion that would suit an individual best in accordance with his/her needs and preferences.

    In the soon event that I leave the JWs, I plan on not ever belonging to a religion. People will probably catch me inside religious structures due to being invited to a special event like a wedding or something like that.


  • Markfromcali

    Hi Ross,

    Which IMHO becomes so much bullshyte...

    Actually that was the whole point, there is not one idea that's more or less BS than another - but it's about what we're pointing to. Depending on whether or not that common point is seen, it can indeed become BS. Perhaps the point was not skillfully made - it could be on either side. In any case hopefully there will be a meeting.

    If it's bigger than the mind, then all you've done is set another placeholder.
    That's exactly what theists have done with the concept of God. Placing your own existance as that "god" is no more satisfying, unless you like self-abuse...

    No, that is not what's going on. The key word is context, just as you can put a particular thought in context of the mind, the mind in context of the entire organism, and then that in context of the ecosystem or whatever. What you are describing would be a projection of the mind, in which case I would totally agree, it is not at all satisfying and not exactly truthful.

    It also denies the experience of millions of people, the majority of whom are unlikely to have a multiple-personality disorder.

    Again, it is not about the experience of people, which would be significant if it is a matter of something projected from the mind of an individual. Aside from personality though there are other types of fragmentation, one might consider what we think of as a person to be a coherent entity, but upon close inspection that might not be the case. Take for example the phenomena of 'emotional hijacking' - that is within what one might consider reasonable parameters of a coherent personality, but there is great inconsistency when you take the behavior into consideration along with all others and view it as a whole.

    We have to look underneath the surface, that was the point I was trying to make in the idolatry thread. So having said all this, I also want to be clear that I do not intend to imply that we can judge any of it by a superficial view of behavior alone. The question is where is it 'coming from', isn't it? Take Jesus for example, he is rather different from the typical idea, atleast what we think of as the eastern image of a sage. He could get very emotional. But the question is not which emotion it is, the intensity or how others may (mis)interpret it, but what I'm trying to describe as 'where' it's 'coming from' - in other words is it an expression of conscious awareness or unconscious conditioning? Sometimes it is immediately obvious, but when in doubt there's the rule of thumb of looking at the fruits.

    So in spite of the fragmentation that may exist on the level of an individual person, I think when there is a deep seeing, we can see a greater coherence and a wholeness and unity, which some would call the real.

    And of course, we cannot take any ideas we have of it too seriously, including the ones I have expressed above - no placeholders. No god, self, or anything. Whatever we are, call it our spiritual nature or what you will, we are that. Taking something seriously is just holding on to a mentally manufactured image, and if it is an idea of self that will only mean it is not the real self. No ideas is the best place to start, so for those that have read this whole thing I'm afraid you've been mislead. But really, ideas of course serve to orient consciousness in a certain way, and necessary if you're going to post long winded messages on the internet, but ultimately that is not so important.

  • Valis

    HELP!! Trying to find right religion brough up as JW

    Hmmm..the things I have read would lead me to believe you are still trying to find one now with all the old baggage you say you left behind. If you are truly to ever be happy and be a spiritual person I think you have to clear all that away and start anew. Tabula Raza style. Dump all your notions about pagan this and pagan that. Real meaning is something that you ascribe to days or times of the year or people or things for that matter. No what some cod swallop bastards sitting on high at a printing press have to say. I would also have to say that just because something like a holiday has "roots" somewhere doesn't make it original. There are few if any things that we haven't been doing or thinking about doing for aeons before the bible was ever thought of.


    District Overbeer

  • googlemagoogle

    go rastafari. smoking pot is a religious ritual there... and they didn't take part in WW2 either, they are known for love, peace and harmony, so i guess those are the disciples jesus rambled bout.

    or go humanist. the only "religion" that has a future.

  • LittleToe

    Mark:Whether it's the god within or the god outwith, an omnipresent ideal still surfaces.
    The names and placeholders may change, but ultimately we all seek meaning to something that is deeper than the mere physical.

  • Doubtfully Yours
    Doubtfully Yours

    A while back I read some survey on-line about your likes/dislikes, and according to the answers they reccommended certain religion(s) to satisfy the persons needs and preferences.

    Look it up!


  • JamesThomas

    Ross said "we seek meaning to something that is deeper...".

    Generally, religions feed us a lot of stories without ever informing anyone of what we genuinely hunger for: our actual and true Identity. Only something so intimate and close as our own authentic Being, can give the sustenance and satisfaction we feel we so desperately need.

    Who would have thought, that there is a love so loving as to have already given the ultimate gift. Nothing to earn; no scriptures to learn; no holier place than right here and now we need go. Just stop, and see through the story of who we believe ourselves to be, deeper into the pristine silence which is looking.

    "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life". This "I", was not exclusively owned by some fellow of two thousand years ago. It is not so tiny or limited as to be so small. It, is the "Alfa and Omega" without beginning or end. It, is the same "I" that looks out your eyes even now; which generally goes unnoticed and hidden behind a grand and dramatic story of a tiny and lacking individual we believe ourself to be.

    Discover what you truly are, and you then discover who and what everyone and everything really and truly is.

    Funny thing is, is if we believe what has just been said, we dig ourself another stinking grave; build another belief system or religion. We have to come to an end of beliefs, stories and discussions, and really, really, really look. And then, go deeper still.

  • LittleToe

    And that is just what I've discovered - as soon as I peel off a layer, another skin forms...
    It's kinda frustrating, from one perspective

    Ironically, when you strip down Christianity it experientially speaks similar tones to what you've just started.
    The only significant difference between your state belief and mine is Christ, whom you have dispensed with.
    To which I would ask - who looks out of your eyes?...

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