Is Jesus Christ and Michael the ArchAngel one and the same person? (page 14)

googlemagoogle

i think there is a lot of evidence indicating that clever Hans and Hansel from Hansel and Gretel are in fact the same person.

not sure, but i think Hänsel foreshadows Christ, as he was bound without guilt, he was supposed to be killed by someone evil AND his flesh was supposed to be eaten. Hänsel und Gretel probably are in the tradition of mesopotamian creation accounts, as the gingerbread house resembles the forbidden fruit, gretel offers gingerbread to hänsel, for wich he is condemned to death.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Will Power,

I don't believe the word Lord in that scripture refers to Jehovah. I'm an exWitness.

LT,

Thanks, I appreciate your comments. I hope you know I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything just trying to explain why I believe as I do.

Ellderwho,

Colossians 1:15 says about the Christ, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." NASB

Sabrina

Kenneson

"...Michael may just be the Christ prior to his coming to earth as a man."

If Michael was Christ before coming to earth then he was Michael when on earth and Michael when he went back to the Father. You can't have Michael living in heaven and Christ simultaneously living on earth because that makes two persons, not one. Whereas angels in the Old Testament appear to materialize, this is not what happened to the Christ as Scriptures say he was born of a woman. Gal. 4:4

Narkissos

Ross,

Does the name Michael mean:
"Who is like God!" (a statement about the name bearer) or
"Who is like God?" (a praise of God Himself)?

Definitely the latter. Mi is an interrogative, not a relative.

Narkissos

Kenneson,

You can't have Michael living in heaven and Christ simultaneously living on earth because that makes two persons, not one. Whereas angels in the Old Testament appear to materialize, this is not what happened to the Christ as Scriptures say he was born of a woman.

Slippery ground. Basically the orthodox doctrine has exactly the same problem with a personal divine Son becoming a man. This is classically solved by the doctrine of the two natures of Christ, where the divine Logos is said to be enhypostatic (or "impersonating") and the human nature is said to be anhypostatic (or "impersonal"). So that in Christ there are (supposedly) two natures and only one (divine) person. Actually an orthodox should never say that Jesus was a human person. I guess the same trick, basically, is available to the neo-Arians with their two natures (angelic and human).

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Kenneson,

If Michael was Christ before coming to earth then he was Michael when on earth and Michael when he went back to the Father. You can't have Michael living in heaven and Christ simultaneously living on earth because that makes two persons, not one. Whereas angels in the Old Testament appear to materialize, this is not what happened to the Christ as Scriptures say he was born of a woman. Gal. 4:4

What I meant was that the name Michael was I believe the name of Jesus before coming to the earth. Of course they are not two persons. For those who do not believe in the Trinity, like myself, Jesus had a life in the heavens in a spirit body before coming here, as all God's heavenly sons have also. Was God's firstborn heavenly Son's name, Jesus, meaning God Saves, prior to his coming to earth? Maybe some believe that I don't know. I just happen to believe his name was Michael.

Sabrina

LittleToe

Green:

I hope you know I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything just trying to explain why I believe as I do.

No problem. That's my angle, too.

...Jesus had a life in the heavens in a spirit body before coming here...

A spirit body, or he was a spirit (creature or otherwise)?
Does having a spirit body mean that he had a transferable soul?

For the last couple of days I've been meaning to start a thread on the "tri-part man" doctrine. I need to get on with this, this evening.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Hi LT,

I believe Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth. A spirit as his Father is Spirit and as the other angelic creation are spirits. I don't believe in the immortality of the soul.

Sabrina

LittleToe

Sabrina:So spirit body may be a bit of a misnomer, in this context? I'd agree.
That does then give rise to a query as to the meaning of 1Cor.15:44-49, however...

I do believe in the immortality of the soul
But then I claimed to be a WTS "anointed one", too

myelaine

Dear Green,

If you don't believe in the immortality of the soul them it stands to reason that when Jesus was taken into heaven, He would have been "empty". By that I mean, without memory of His life as Jesus. The soul of Jesus had in effect "died" on the cross. At that point He would be an "ordinary" spirit that could no longer relate to us or understand us as humans because He never was one. No been there, done that. What do you think?

see Hebrews 2:18

Is Jesus Christ and Michael the ArchAngel one and the same person?

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