What the &*%# (bleep) do we know?

by Navigator 46 Replies latest social entertainment

• 

  jst2laws

  OK,

  First, two reservations:

  I haven't investigated the water changing due to kind or harsh words, but I'm skeptical of there being mush science behind it.

  As to the Aztecs not seeing the ships, this too needs some explanation. I suspect they saw something but did not know what it was. Suspending judgment until more info surfaces.

  While the movie took a few points perhaps to an extreme it at least is making (hopefully) thousands of people more aware of the strange reality found at the subatomic level.

  Dear DocWatson, Your thought that the movie was wrong and unscientific to suggest we make our own reality is mistaken. This is not a problem with the movie you have, it is a problem with quantum physics. Way back in 1927 Einstein debated Neils Bohr at the Conference entitled "What does Quantum physics have to do with Reality". The young science was already suggesting what you object to. To give you a hint this is not new, Einstein objected by saying "Is the moon only there when I look at it?"

  "If you actually did affect your surroundings by "wishing intensely," then something else was at work that science doesn't understand. But it wasn't quantum physics and it wasn't in the way described in this movie."

  So how do YOU explain the placebo affect that new drugs are measured against because it often works better than medication? Science cannot explain these things. They can only study and report them.

  "Well I like new ideas too, but not when it counters solid science and comes across as something well-supported by the scientific community."

  Hhhmmm. Quantum physics has taken a lot of criticism in the past 75 years. Yet no one can prove them wrong. Instead the sciences of Chemistry, biology and electronics, not to mention nuclear physics and astronomy have all used quantum physic's theories to explain their fields as well. But remember, these are the same guys who think the 'moon is not there until we look at it'. Jst2laws
• 

  ESTEE

  Saw it -- loved it!

  The water thing made sense to my way of thinking. I went with about 15 others from my positive-thinking group. I know that since I changed my thinking, my life has changed dramatically for the better!

  Love,

  ESTEE
• 

  drwtsn32

  So how do YOU explain the placebo affect that new drugs are measured against because it often works better than medication?

  The placebo effect is not what the movie is talking about. Placebo effect, while not understood, is very real and has been proven. But the movie was talking about making much more meaningful impacts in reality...like making this appear, disappear, walking on water, etc. *That* is what I am arguing against. If some experimentation has shown that people can walk on water, even if the mechanism is not understood, I'd like to see it.
• 

  drwtsn32

  Regarding the walking on water thing... the movie made it sound like this was "no problem." Well why can't they demonstrate it? lol
• 

  SixofNine

  :Placebo effect, while not understood, is very real and has been proven.
  
  
  Given that negative stress can make one ill, is the placebo effect really very likely to be anything much more than the other side of that coin? And is that coin really very likely to be related to quantum physics? (serious question there, I know nothing of quantum physics)
• 

  drwtsn32

  Your thought that the movie was wrong and unscientific to suggest we make our own reality is mistaken.

  So you are saying our reality is not an independent, external one? How are we interacting then? Am I imagining all of this? If so, why doesn't everyone agree with me? :P
• 

  drwtsn32

  Given that negative stress can make one ill, is the placebo effect really very likely to be anything much more than the other side of that coin?

  That seems reasonable to me.

  And is that coin really very likely to be related to quantum physics?

  Nope, it's a physiological coin. :)
• 

  jst2laws

  DrWatson,

  The placebo effect is not what the movie is talking about. Placebo effect, while not understood, is very real and has been proven.

  OK. So what is scientifically proven is that we CAN ALTER OUR REALITY. We can make ourselves well by thinking it so, even though tricked into thinking it so. The movie was basically telling us we can control our moods with right thinking yet the placebo affect says we can control much more than peptides. You haven't acknowledged my comments about the long standing battle between the Newtonian physicists and the quantum physicists and the fact that the quantum physicist are making all the progress in the past 80 years. This actually started with Einstein. He received his only Nobel Prize for his paper in 1905 on Quantum Energy. Being rather religious he too had trouble with the door he had opened. The bottom line is he was right about "Relativity". His two theories on relativity explained all things were 'relative' to the OBSERVER, even time, space and the speed of light. THE OBSERVER. Each individual is the "observer". Scary, isn't it. Jst2laws
• 

  drwtsn32

  OK. So what is scientifically proven is that we CAN ALTER OUR REALITY. We can make ourselves well by thinking it so, even though tricked into thinking it so. The movie was basically telling us we can control our moods with right thinking yet the placebo affect says we can control much more than peptides.

  Have you seen the movie? Because that's not what I gathered from it at all. It was basically saying that we all make our own reality...completely. Not just affect ourselves physiologically with our mind (which is proven), but an ability to control physical objects external to our being (like changing the state of water, for example).

  You haven't acknowledged my comments about the long standing battle between the Newtonian physicists and the quantum physicists and the fact that the quantum physicist are making all the progress in the past 80 years. This actually started with Einstein. He received his only Nobel Prize for his paper in 1905 on Quantum Energy. Being rather religious he too had trouble with the door he had opened. The bottom line is he was right about "Relativity". His two theories on relativity explained all things were 'relative' to the OBSERVER, even time, space and the speed of light. THE OBSERVER. Each individual is the "observer". Scary, isn't it.

  I hadn't responded because I'm still researching the debates between Einstein and Bohr. I am aware that Einstein did not like some of the conclusions that his own theories predicted. He didn't like the "uncertainty" of quantum mechanics, nor did he like how relativity predicted singularities, etc.

  I'm not sure why you bring up Relativity in defense of this movie. It doesn't allow for what they were claiming and neither does quantum mechanics. AFAIK q.m. is only meaningful on the microscopic level. Its principles (uncertainty, entanglement) do not translate directly into the macroscopic world.

  Maybe you brought up Relativity because it was such a departure from known physics at the time. Well yeah, this movie was sure a departure from known science! :)
• 

  jst2laws

  DrWatson,

  I'm going to bed but to answer just one of your questions:

  I'm not sure why you bring up Relativity in defense of this movie

  I'm not defending the movie, although it was more right than it was wrong. I'm explaining or defending the quantum physics paradigm of reality. Einstein started it and then fought it to his death. Within a decade of its birth quantum physics has followed the inevitable road that Einstein sent them down with his papers on Quantum energy and his Special and General theories of Relativity. This put the world on its ear undermining the stability of Newtonian physics leaving all the sciences wondering if EVERYTHING was relative. Then Heisenberg came up with his Uncertainty Principle in the 20's which helped Einstein realize where science was heading and he hated it, just as he hated the reality of the atomic bomb coming as a result of his contributions to science. He spent the rest of his life trying to find the 'unifying theory' which fifty years after his death still eludes science. Relativity has removed the former "certainty" in physics, art, literature and religion. Quantum mechanics has provided the theory and math that has fed all the other sciences for the last 80 years explaining what science observes while agreeing with relativity which also proves to be accurate.

  The grim reality is that many quantum physicist are also on the edge of scientific philosophy as well as mysticism. Unfortunately, what they are dealing with and explaining is very much compatible with what the mystics have been saying for thousands of years. The two mixing a little is evitable.

  Jst2laws