by Terry 213 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Mulan
    I reared my children with the fun of Christmas but, not with the "lie" of personhood for the character of Santa. They have the same happy Christmas time as other kids, however, they feel they are special because they see other children "fooled" while they are "in the know". It helps them observe the role of belief in fooling people without taking away the fun of a celebration.

    That is such a sad comment. My children never new the fantasy of Santa Claus and I regret it so much. Seeing my 4 year old grandson, so enthralled with Santa last Christmas, and hugging him, was just a delight. All kids figure it out, that it isn't real, but the fantasy is absolutely harmless. When I was growing up as a JW, from age 4, I just thought Santa didn't come to our house anymore. I learned two years ago, that my then 8 year old grandson thought the same thing. They celebrate it now, and I'm sure he knows the truth, but his little brother doesn't yet. I don't think you have scarred your kids, but your attitude is very sad.

    to dream, imagine, fantasize , and not have that sourpuss JW attitude that everything whimsical is bad

    Excellent, comment, outnfree.

  • Xena

    Princess & Czar pretty much hit all the highlights for me

  • Annanias

    Terry, your question begins with an incorrect assumption. You apparently believe that fantasy is something that is put into a person's mind. This is simply not true. Fantasy, along with imagination, curiosity, language come pre-wired into the human brain. And apparently, fantasy is an extremely powerful portion of the mind. Thus the human capacity and need for dreaming. All humans dream, and apparently, our minds require a fixed amount of dreaming. If we loose dream time tonight, we will make up for it by dreaming more the next night. Unless, curiously enough, we are schizophrenic.

  • Terry
    I'm a definite believer that raising kids with better critical thinking faculties would help protect them from all kinds of foolery, not the least category of which is religious, and make the world a better place. But myth has an important place.

    Good points! I have no trouble with fantasy and myth WITH ONE PROVISIO:

    MAKE SURE THE KIDS KNOW which is which.

  • Terry

    seven006 says:

    The bible writers did not know their stories would be later examined and put to the test of scientific fact or fiction. They also did not have the communication technology that would eventually expose how they took older myths from older religious and made it part of their own. The hand me down pseudo science of those days that was turned into religion, can only be held to any resemblance of fact by qualifying it's outrageous stories to be true by replacing the word "fact" with the emotional and very effective word and concept of "faith". Mix that with the fear of god distorting you if you do not believe, and you have what we have today.

    Wonderful post!!

    If only I could have known that BEFORE I made my Jw decision about life!!

  • Terry

    Princess says:

    Are you teaching them they are better because you never gave them the chance to experience Santa and figure it out for themselves? The phrase "they see other children "fooled" " bothers me. I don't feel like I'm fooling my children, I'm letting them experience a real life fantasy. Your children will never know the fun of Santa Claus. IMO they are truly missing out on a magical aspect of Christmas, at least they feel superior because of it.

    I am flabbergasted and amazed that so many people insist it is okay to teach children things that are not true. The true matter is this. There is no real Santa! That is a fact. Do you like to be told things that are not true with the hidden agenda that you should figure it out for yourself?

    How would you like to go around thinking you won the Lottery for awhile? Wouldn't you be ecstatic? Wouldn't you celebrate and jump for joy and feel like your whole life changed dramatically? Of course you would! Then, when the lottery checks didn't come in the mail...and you figured out you'd been fooled (for your own good by a friend who wanted to cheer you up) would you still be happy or would you be furious? WHY?

    Why are vulnerable children considered so expendable when it comes to true/false learning?

    Remember, that warm and wonderful feeling connected to Christmas is partly the "belief" that it is real. Has anybody ever told you they love you? That makes you feel warm and wonderful too. But, what if they DON'T love you? They are only saying it and not meaning it! Now, how does THAT make you feel? Should you be grateful you had the delusional warm feelings of being loved EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE DELUSIONAL?

    I'm sorry. This sort of treatment of children seems abusive to me. Teach children how to experience wonder in life WITHOUT hiding facts and without misleading them and without creating false hopes. That is a parenting skill with integrity to it.

  • DanTheMan

    I had a book when I was a kid named Danny and the Dinosaur about this kid who goes on an adventure through his town with a dinosaur, I don't remember the specifics of the story but how I loved that book.

    Vulcans suck

  • Terry


    To teach children that all fantasies are lies and that they are superior to others who believe in magic will only teach them to be close-minded and prejudiced,

    I think you misread me.

    Teach children THE DIFFERENCE between fantasy and truth.

    Can you see why I make that distinction?

  • Terry


    Terry, I know you are in love with materialist rationalism, but that philosophy often comes across as dogmatic as any ravings of a Biblethumping revivalist. Why does it do that? Why are the arguments in defense of materialst rationalism so similar to the "blame game" played by faith healers? "You don't have enough faith" = "You are too weak to face reality as I think it must be." and "You are in love with sin" = "You are in love with false hopes."

    Is it possible you are reading in to my statements an aspect I'm not intending should go there?

    For me, thinking is a tool.

    Who wants a tool that doesn't work?

    Who wants the wrong tool?

    Who wants to pretend they have a tool and there isn't even one in the box?

    That is all I'm intending to say.

    If we know the difference between what really is and what really isn't----can't you see that as an advantage?

  • Mulan
    I had a book when I was a kid named Danny and the Dinosaur about this kid who goes on an adventure through his town with a dinosaur, I don't remember the specifics of the story but how I loved that book.

    We had that book for our Danny too. He loved it.

    Terry: Our youngest son, Danny, had a vivid imagination with several imaginary friends, and even an imaginary dog, Barney. We were JW's, so he was taught that Santa was not real, but he still had his fantasy people, who were incredibly real to him. It never occurred to me to make him admit they were not real people and real dog. He screamed at me one time when I was on the phone, saying that I was standing on Barney. I immediately moved but didn't correct him and insist he admit the dog was not really there.

    His teachers told me he was the kind of person who could write books. He is an amazing writer now, (and is in college) and can tell a great story. About age 6 his imaginary friends came by less and less often. It was harmless...............he was the youngest child of 4, the eldest three were much older than he, and lonely for playmates, so he made them up.

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