When my daughter was 10 years old...

by NOdenial 19 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • blondie
    Do you know of any attorneys or legal action in Canada that would be interested in hearing about something like this?

    No, I don't; but you could check with Kim Norris at Love & Norris and see what contacts she has. She works with WT abuse cases here in the US out of Texas but works with lawyers in many different states.


    Love & Norris
    Attorneys at Law
    314 Main Street, Suite 300
    Fort Worth, Texas 76102
    Telephone: 817.335.2800
    Facsimile: 817.335.2912
    Toll Free: 877.4ABUSED (877.422.8733)
    Greg email: [email protected]
    Kimberlee email: [email protected]

  • StinkyPantz

    I would only pursue this if your daughter suffered severe psychological damage due to this incident. If the statute of limitations has expired, you are prohibited from bringing this to court. If you choose to push it anyway, he could sue you for slander.

    I understand that you want to protect other potential victims, but this would be a hard case to prove. Even if you did, he would most likely not spend any jail time and he'd plead down to a misdemeanor, like "indecent exposure".


    SP, according to all the elders I have talked to when talk alone to a sister, 2 elders are required according to WT policy, whether counsel or baptismal questions.

    This was not my experience, is all I can say.

  • blondie

    SP, I understand that I'm sorry if I implied otherwise.. Many elders "break" this rule from the frequent counsel in the WT and from the COs to the elders not to be alone with a sister. Too many elders get too friendly trying to give counsel or get "caught up in the moment" when emotions run high.

    Makes you wonder why all the counsel about chaperones to young people and then elders think they are immune.

    The elders I have talked to do it more to protect themselves than the sister.


  • jgnat


    Here is what the Limitation of Actions Act in British Columbia says:

    (4) The following actions are not governed by a limitation period and may be brought at any time:

    (k) for a cause of action based on misconduct of a sexual nature, including, without limitation, sexual assault,

    (i) where the misconduct occurred while the person was a minor, and

    (ii) whether or not the person's right to bring the action was at any time governed by a limitation period;

    (l) for a cause of action based on sexual assault, whether or not the person's right to bring the action was at any time governed by a limitation period.

  • jgnat

    This is a portion of the criminal code.

    153(1) Sexual Exploitation - Every person who is in a position of trust or authority towards a young person or is a person with whom the young person is in a relationship of dependency and who

    (a) for a sexual purpose, touches, directly or indirectly, with a part of the body or with an object, any part of the body of the young person, or

    (b) for a sexual purpose, invites, counsels or incites a young person to touch, directly or indirectly, with a part of the body or with an object, the body of any person, including the body of the person who so invites, counsels or incites and the body of the young person,

    is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

    173. (1) Exposure Every one who wilfully does an indecent act

    (a) in a public place in the presence of one or more persons, or

    (b) in any place, with intent thereby to insult or offend any person,

    is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

    (2) Every person who, in any place, for a sexual purpose, exposes his or her genital organs to a person who is under the age of fourteen years is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    ND and CB

    I think you have answered correctly (as have others) that she needs to make these decisions.

    As for going to the police over a person who exposed himself umpteen years ago I don't honestly think the police would get involved. Not that I think what happened was ok. It most definitely was not. It was inexcusable. But there are backlogs of more serious cases that will most defiitely take precedence. (rotten world sometimes)

    Sexual abuse does involve non-contact forms of sexuality such as exposing oneself.

    What you can do and I would suggest that might help you and your daughter:

    Sit down and write her a letter. I say write it instead of just telling her because it will be more helpful to her in the long run to have it written down so she can go over it and really digest your words and love for her.

    Let her know how this makes you feel about what he did. And let her know she did not do anything to deserve this (you may have said it but it needs repeating)

    Let her know that you feel so sad that she could not or did not come to you earlier with this. Apologize for whatever reasons she thought she could not come to you. (her perceptions at the time and may not be a reflection of who you are or the relationship really was). Let her know that regardless of how upsetting it was to hear that you are glad she trusts you enough now to share this with you.

    Ask her how you can help her now. Leave this open and don't offer suggestions. Just let her know the door is always open regarding this issue and that you will follow her direction. Also let her know that as much as you would like to "do something" and take control let her know you realize that now that she is an adult she needs to be in control and clearly is in control. And that you are proud of her.

    Write the letter and put it away for a couple of days and then take it out and read it. Change what you need to change and put it away again. Do the same thing until there are no more changes and then give it to her.

    As for your feelings about all of this:

    I imagine a lot of anger and helplessness. Writing the letter as suggested above will help. But... got a punching bag? Go to the gym? Try something physical and safe to release the anger. Turn up the radio and scream all you want at this guy in the safety of your house. Might be a good idea to do this when CB is not around. Write him a letter NOT to be sent and say whatever you want. Then tear it to shreads the way you might want to tear him to shreds. Get an old phone book and tear that to shreds. (I've had itty bitty female clients tear huge 4 inch phone books to shreds) The important thing is to release the anger in a safe way. And then find something nice to do for yourself and CB

    (((ND & CB)))

  • jst2laws

    Hey NOdenial,

    I agree with SP on the issue of pursuing this legally, Jgnat on letting you daughter remain in control, and Blondie about contacting Kimberly Norris, but with one purpose. Not to pursue legal contacts in Canada perticularly but to add this man's name to her database in case there have been or will be others coming forward with complaints.

    That way you have done what you can to protect others without violating your daughters right to pursue or not pursue this. Although I agree it was abusive to your daughter for him to behave this way, doubt it would go anywhere if it was brought to court. But if he has done worse to others, she may choose to add testimony against the man in anothers suite.

    I'm sorry for both of you. I think your daughter would be even more upset with this event if she knew how extensive a problem child molestation is in the WT, but then perhaps you have been sharing that with her.

    Take care,

  • stillconcerned

    I don't know of anyone handling these sorts of cases in Canada, because the statutory law re civil court claims is so different there..

    ANY report you make to police is protected; there's no lawsuit supported by any victim's action in reporting the TRUTH to law enforcement.

    A certified letter to WTS or the congregation itself would AT LEAST put the cong and WTS on notice if others were/are being molested by the PO. Given the present climate legally, WTS might well pull him from his position of authority, in an abundance of caution, due to other bad press re other poorly handled situations.

    Just my thoughts...

    Thanks for the plug, Blondie-

    Kimberlee D. Norris

    [email protected]


  • teejay

    Dave's right... which is to say YOU'RE right. Leave it in daughter's hands. Doing anything now that might be seen as an attack on Jehovah's People? may evoke a circle-the-wagons response, and seeings how your daughter is making steps to fade... well... I wouldn't mess with it. I might kill the elder, mind you, but I wouldn't make a big deal out of it.

  • abbagail

    I'll be the 'oddball' here (and abuse survivor, fwiw), and say that I would LOVE IT if my 'daddy' stuck up for me and took action, no matter 'how old' I was now, or how long ago the incident was. It would 'thrill me' if my 'daddy' marched right over to that jerk's house, stared him in the eye, and said, "I KNOW WHAT YOU DID..." Don't smack 'em, though (you don't want to end up in jail for assault), but nothing like a 'friendly' visit to just LET HIM KNOW YOU KNOW. If you think you might lose your cool, tear the phonebook first, then take a buddie with you. Two nice-dressed gentlemen making a neighborly 'house call' to 'stare him down' is even better. You two can hand him a silentlambs flyer and a stuffed-lamb while you're there, too, and turn around and leave. No more, no less. Then let his own paranoia do the rest.

    After that, I would definitely write the letter to the cong and the WT. Whether they do anything with it or not, at least you 'put them on notice.' (keep a copy of the letter, certified). I'd tell the police his name, too, and add that the reason you are doing so is because of the widespread abuse among the JW-cult and this perv-PO likely could have "advanced from bad to worse" by now (2 Tim.3:13) (and refer them to the silentlambs website for more info).

    For the record, one or two of the 'baptismal question sessions'I had (out of three total, maybe?) was with ONE elder as well. But then again, I was in my late 20's at the time and the older black elder was a nervous wreck, lol. ;-)


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