IS IT TRUE & SHOULD WE OBEY IT? (page 4)

stillajwexelder

That is true but a blade that cuts both ways - the WTBTS by the same logic can not sayaanything bad about other religions , or apostates etc. etc. etc.

No personal offence, myelaine. We are talking concepts, and nothing personal has been said yet. You missed my point however. Cities of refuge were places where murderers could run to. This kept them safe from revenging relatives. My point is, Jehovah allowed for personal revenge.

They have to move on and keep walking with God.

You are making a judgement call on everybody on this site. Some are so disillusioned that no god will do any more. Frankly, I can't blame them. They were told for years that all of Christendom and the World were corrupt, then the one "safe place" they trusted proves false. My father was molested by a trusted man in the community, a man of the cloth. My father has rejected all religions, and God for that matter. If God is so all-loving and powerful, why didn't He protect that vulnerable little boy, now a man? For me to blithely tell him that he must turn to God, now, would be most insensitive. I believe that those who have been victimized by those in religious authority receive special grace from God, and their evil perpetrators face a special punishment from God. I personally believe the scales of justice will eventually be righted.

And if they are unsure of how walking with God is done, Look at Jesus, what would He do?

Jesus also violently turned the tables of the moneychangers.

myelaine

The WBTS has taken the individuals walk with God to a corporate level. They have taken their walk with Jesus and believe they have found the path and they have gotten millions of people to believe that path is the right one. In believing the WBTS the individual has in essence relinquished his right to his own walk with Jesus. After seeing this it is the right of the individual to make a choice. An apostate is someone who:

1. Does not believe there is a True God.

2. Does not love that True God with all their heart, mind and body.

3. Does not love their brother like they love the True God.

love michelle

Satanus

myelaine

To make my question a little claearer, let's use santa claus to illustrate. People have talked about him flying around on dec 24 night, w raindeer pulling his sled, landing on peoples' snowey roofs, sliding down the chimneys to full the stockings that the good kids hung out for him, etc. People have talked about this for several hundred yrs. Many kids have believed it. But obviously, the whole thing has never been documented.

It is the same w the waiting for god to take vengence for when christians are screwed over by someone. As far as i know, it has never been documented that god actually stepped in personally, and in a way that is undisputable, took revenge on someone who messed w one of his people.

S

GentlyFeral

avishai said:

If you can't say anything nice about someone, make sure they are out of the room.

"If you can't say anything nice, come sit by me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth gently feral

myelaine

Satanus, let me explain... You just bought a new white mustang GT (it is the object)

You now look at the world from a white mustang GT owners perspective (you are being objective)

You drive around the city and for the first time you see how MANY white cars there are (you are being subjective)

You drive around some more and there it is another white mustang GT ( another object)

and that's about as far as I can take that, but what if......

You found the true God (Object)

You looked at the world through God's eyes (you are being objective)

You live your life and really see where God has blessed you (you are being subjective)

You live your life some more and you hear of "miracle strength from 90 yr old grandma in Timbuktwo" (object)

Now I am simplifying it A LOT but you get my drift...If you are a believer you see God's hand in everything good and just. The miracles that happen may not be yours, but they are miracles just the same. I haven't heard of any miracles revolving around revenge for God's children lately, but there is some documentation in the Bible. The Bible mentions a time when He will stand up for ALL His people, from way back then until the second Tuesday of next week. He is only going to stand up once for all time, not every time ONE of His children needs revenge. He is taking a long time isn't He? His reasons are His own, we are just asked to keep being objective as we pursue our life with our eye on the object.

love michelle

Terry

Some things and some people are so awful you have to open your mouth and say something.

That is how Hitler came to power. People did nothing to stop him.

You have to speak up. It is your obligation to your fellow man.

Explain your reasons and lay out your evidence and let people with honest hearts and open minds decide.

jgnat

Michelle, I am a believer. Really truly. I fear, though, that you do not consider me one. I fear that I am so different from you that you cannot recognize me as a fellow believer. The logic is really poor in your example, I suggest you clean it up a little. First of all, we cannot acquire God. He is not an object, and our faith is a gift from Him, freely asked, freely given. Looking at the world differently after we acquire an object is subjective, even though we gained that perception after we acquired an object. If I were to rewrite your analogy, it might look like this:

A stray white kitten wanders in to your life. You welcome it in to your home. (object)

The kitten brings new warmth and comfort to your lonely existence. (subjective)

You notice all the other pet owners in the neighbourhood, and you mutually agree that white kittens are wonderful. (subjective)

One neighbour refuses to pet your kitten. You conclude she is misinformed and unloving. (subjective)

Later, you find out she is highly allergic to cat dander. (objective)

As for waiting for God to deal with bullies, I believe He created us with brains and a sense of justice for a reason. Our justice system may not be perfect, but it catches many bad people and metes out judgement. Some principles of law date from Solomon?s time (such as a person does not have to prove themselves innocent, rather, the law must prove them guilty). I am glad that men of the bible, men of principle, speak out against injustice. I am glad that Martin Luther King did not sit at home and wait for God to end slavery. I am glad that Albert Schweitzer, out of his deep principles, spoke out against nuclear armament. May more people of principle speak out.

myelaine

jgnat,

I would like to say first of all, that I do recognize you as a believer. From what I have read of your postings I see that you are caring, helpful, wise and understanding.You don't pick fights and you're not wishy-washy. God blesses you and I do too. When I was writing my analogy I was responding to Satanus and his question about God stepping in to avenge His people.I was trying to be simplistic.I know God is not an object, but it's not wrong to say He is the object of my affections. When I look through my "God glasses" I am being objective. What I see is subjective. I too am most thankful for people that don't just stand around and "smell the flowers". I love it when people PURSUE life and actively stand up for the underdog.The world needs more people like this. You my dear are one of them. You are actively helping people that have been mistreated by a religion, you are there in whatever capacity you can be. I applaud you.

love michelle

Satanus

Myelaine

If you are a believer you see God's hand in everything good and just.

Right, of course. Now, if you believe in allah, then you see him everywhere. If you believe in zeus, you see his hand everywhere. If you believe in zeroaster, then you see ahura mazda everywhere.

The miracles that happen may not be yours, but they are miracles just the same.

They may not be your god's miracles, either. They could be from another god, another force, something totally out of your world view.

I haven't heard of any miracles revolving around revenge for God's children lately,

Thanks for answering my question.

but there is some documentation in the Bible. The Bible mentions a time when He will stand up for ALL His people, from way back then until the second Tuesday of next week. He is only going to stand up once for all time,

This gets into another topic: the bible, and how reliable it's contents are. I'm not going to get into that now. But, if you stay around, you will get a chance to see the bible's veracity challenged.

not every time ONE of His children needs revenge. He is taking a long time isn't He? His reasons are His own, we are just asked to keep being objective as we pursue our life with our eye on the object.

Yes, zeus and ahura mazda are also doddling. But don't worry, they have their own reasons. There are still a few believing zeroastrians around.

S

IS IT TRUE & SHOULD WE OBEY IT?

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