by Frobrisher 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Seattleniceguy:
Thanks for explaining your point of view on conditional love.
But just as in your illustration, doesn't God want us to become something, and if we don't he draws away from us? Or does God love everyone no matter what you become? In that case, no need for Armageddon, things are the way God intended?
Frobrisher: I never said I hated them. In fact I love them and I am always here waiting for them in case they choose to come around...
Now that I find healthy thinking. I wish you all the best. . .go make it happen.
Frobrisher: Welcome. How and why did you find this place, evidently you too are looking for some support reaching to others that share similar experiences. Am I correct?
Hatred is a very strong word and a very strong accusation. You are also confusing hatred with anger. What many have come here for is to overcome a loss, it's very similar to the grieving process which takes the following steps shock, denial, anger, guilt, depression and acceptance. Grief can take some several days, months, even years. I would have to almost guess that you are still in a state of denial in your grieving process, because if you had already gone through your steps of loss (ie., friends, family etc), then you would come here with an open mind and be a little more understanding of the people on this forum. You are very new and it is quite unfair of you to make such strong accusations.
I think you need to dig a little deeper inside of yourself and figure out where you are going in life and what you are doing here. You obviously have more unanswered questions hidden deep away other than what you have posted. I'm not trying to attack you, just trying to understand you, because you really seem a little confused and on a very middle road.
Stick around, you could learn a lot from here....I would also suggest you do some further homework for yourself....Read Raymond Franz's book 'Crisis of Conscience'.
Take care....I hope you find what your really looking for.
Frob,
Yes you are correct! No one puts a gun to our head, and there is no problem leaving. I'm sorry, though reading many posts on this thread, Ihave not read them all. But, if you have left, and all the rest of your family are devout witnesses, why have you not received a letter like this one from my daughter?
_________________________________________________________________________-
Dear Dad,
I?m writing to let you know how I feel, and some decisions I have made. I have felt this way a very long time, I have just chosen to ignore it and cover it over. But I feel I have to tell you because some things are going to have to change. So here it goes.
First of all, none of this is coming from mom, all of it is coming from me. Exactly how I feel, and think.
Although you are my father, we have chosen different paths. You have chosen the world, and not to live by Bible principles or standards. You disassociated yourself, and you chose what you wanted to do. You know enough about the Witnesses to know that I should treat you like a disfellowshipped person. Accept in your case it?s worse. Because disassociating yourself means you are not repentant and that you do not feel bad for the things you do, or have done in the past. The court papers said I had to see you until I was 18. I am no longer 18 and I feel that associating with you is a hinderence(sp) to my spirituality.
It really made me mad when I came up for a visit for a week. And you were asking me all kinds of questions to try and disillusion me, and to make me have doubts in my head. Then you were showing me articles about it. And even though you were letting me go to the meetings and go out in field service, you still tried to make it hard, by things you said. It really put me out when you did that, because it showed lack of respect. And truthfully you don?t want answers to your questions you ask, because you are not interested in the truth, or what teachings we have. So you cannot fully understand, or want to understand it. It is like trying to reason with a drunk person. Because you didn?t want to hear it. You are content with your lifestyle, and the things you have chosen. You like doing what you want to do. Which is why you are no longer a witness.
I would feel a lot better with my self if I didn?t associate with you. Because I should treat you like a disfellowshipped person. And truthfully I don?t want to visit you, and be around the lifestyle you try to have me live. I know you will truly be happy with me until I am out of the truth. And that will not happen. Because I love Jehovah, and I know that it is the truth. In the congregation there are problems, but everywhere you go there are problems, everyone is imperfect. But as a whole, Jehovah?s people are organized and have true Christian unity. You can go anywhere in the world and be taught the same exact thing that is going on all the way on the other side of the world. Where as other churches teach what ever they want. You can go to a Baptist church and be taught one thing, then go to one 30 minutes away and be taught another.
I went to the meeting a few months ago, and they read a scripture out of the Bible. I was wondering how I was going to tell you all this, and if it is the right thing for me to do, and they read the scripture, and it made me realize that I had to do this, for myself. Jesus said these words, ?Do you imagine I came to give peace on earth? No, indeed, I tell you, but rather division. For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father,?..? That is Luke 12:51-53, just incase you want to look at it. That scripture is very true. Because when only on family member serves Jehovah, and the other one doesn?t, then it causes problems. And to feel I am doing right, I need to sever ties. So basically until you start doing something about the truth, I don?t want to be around you, or talk to you. Because I don?t want to, nor do I need to. Everytime I would go visit you I would feel sick as it was nearing, and everytime I talk to you on the phone I feel terrible when I get off. I?m tired of feeling that way. And I?m tired of trying to make you happy. It wears me out.
I am also engaged to a Brother in Lufkin. I don?t want him to meet you, or talk to you because you are not good association. And I don?t think you should come to my wedding, because I do not want an apostate at my wedding. He also has an understanding about this, because he has 2 disfellowshipped brothers. So he knows how it feels. I knew you would say you wanted to meet him etc. when I told you I was interested in someone. So I just didn?t tell you. I am sorry about this, but you made your decision. You chose one thing and I chose another. So this is the way it has to be. If by me saying this means sacrificing a car, and a trip to Scotland, oh well. I would rather be happy with myself and the decision I have made, and know Jehovah is happy about it, then to keep pretending. You brought this upon yourself, and for that I am sorry, because you cannot truly be happy with your life, unless you have Jehovah and the congregation backing you up. At least I never could be. So here is where we must part. If you wish to contact me, I would prefer you write me a letter, or an email, because I won?t be taking your phone calls.
Respectfully,
Signature
I personally think that unconditional love and god are exactly the same and can be interchanged.Teaching children that god can have his feelings hurt.. and not love you anymore is a terrible thing. God is not a vindictive parent.
So we all gain salvation, because God is Unconditional Love? Your free to have that opinion, but I don't see it as Bible based.
I hate their sleazy conniving cult of greed,and here is why...It's called Justifiable anger mates.
I was in since 1957 3rd generation the bloodsucking WT$ got Everything
Dedicated to my family members, nieces and nephew Lauren, Ashley and Kevin Haszard that have gone missing in the Jehovah's Witnesses.
? CLOSURE ?
PAN AM FLIGHT 103 
DOWNED BY TERRORIST in 1988
Why they can't,"..JUST FORGET ABOUT IT"
SOUL RAPE OF MY FAMILY:
Why I can't, "..JUST FORGET ABOUT IT"
"CLOSURE", is a phrase for people who probably have never been through a horrific tragedy..When you have losses that are permanent..It's forever!
WE ARE THE INCONSOLABLE !
It is not being ,'retro' for us to demand justice,there can be NO appeasement,for vicious atrocities .
259 souls of loved ones perished in the murderous actions of global terrorist that downed that doomed airliner..Family members who lost even a single loved one, did not rest until a measure of justice and retribution was achieved..
HELLO !..I LOST MY ENTIRE FAMILY 
They are being held hostage (cocooned) by the Jehovah's Witness cult..
There is a time honored taboo..In a fair fight,you don't assail and assault your opponent's kin..Family's are off limits..You don't,'hit below the belt'.
Like the,next of kin, of the victims of terrorist..I am positioned front and center , to seek retribution and justice.. 
NO REST FOR THE WICKED
Listen up for you Bible thumpers view:Prov.6:30-35 a poignant passage,and that's just for copulating with his wife?
Very interesting comments. I had flash backs of saying much the same thing as you did back three years ago when I starting reading here. No to all your questions at the last.
When I left the witnesses back three years I still believed in the God of the bible was represented by it. That it was divinely inspired. But my reseach into the bible has caused me to draw some different conclusions in the past year or so.
Because of no longer looking at the bible as inspired of God Almighty. Nor any group of men who claim to be anointed of God being divinely inspired, what they or the bible says is pointless in my opinion. I don't look for the end of the world as we know it today unless men managed to blow us all up. Will it be divine judgement? No But I also realize that people do believe in the bible being from God if they want too that is fine, but I have no interest in it myself.
I simply don't care about JW and the WTS anymore and what they teach. If people want to believe it that is their business. I personally will never return to it ever. I spent 30 years of my life doing that and I won't waste another moment living that life. My life is 200% better. My abusive JW ex-husband is a thing of the past, and he has his little piece of the JW paradise with his new wife. I have mine which makes me prefectly happy. The only thing that I am concerned with when it comes to JW is no more folks dying because of the false reasoning of the WTS about blood. That is the only thing I crusade about. It is time to stop the governing bodies lies about blood being prohibited.
Stick around. How long has it been since you stopped meetings?
Balsam
You are still very much a JW.. Good for you nothing bad happened to you while at your constant meetings, Good for you at not being shunned, Good for you no one you know was raped and it was covered up, Good for you no one in your family died from the no blood policy. It sounds like you are very lucky to have had nothing bad happen to you while being in the org. Unfortunately many here and other sites can't feel the way you do .
Just one more question...
The WTS claims to be "the truth"...how is that reconciled with Jesus Christ who said, "I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life..."
So...which is it? The Watchtower or Christ...your choice...
TB
Hey Frobisher,
But just as in your illustration, doesn't God want us to become something, and if we don't he draws away from us? Or does God love everyone no matter what you become? In that case, no need for Armageddon, things are the way God intended?
I would submit that a loving God would not be as petty as the father in my illustration. God's intention is that we grow, not that we fit into a particular narrowly defined box.
For the record, however, my views on God are agnostic.
I would also submit that the Judeo-Christian concepts of God are based on unhealthy parent-child relationships.
Just some food for thought.
SNG
