Hello Everyone . . .(Questions)

by Frobrisher 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Frobrisher
    Frobrisher

    Hello Everyone.

    This is my first post here, though I have been browsing these forums over the last week for more than a few hours.

    In the interest of full discloser, well as much as anyone would on a public forum, I?ll tell you about me. I was raised as a Witness, and have no real horror stories to tell. Most of my immediate family are Witnesses. I was disfellowshipped in the early ?90?s (Don?t quite remember the year.) for pre-marital sex. I have attempted to go back a few times, but it never seems to stick for me.

    I just wanted to ask some questions based on my general first impression of this forum. Not all of these questions fit everyone, and I?m not attacking anyone and I don?t doubt that some of you have been done dirty, but . . .

    Do you think it?s healthy to be bound together in hatred? I know you?ll say your giving each other support, and I?m sure you do, but the venom in the snide remarks and labels that you give the WTS, GB, Elders, and other brothers/sisters . . . is nothing more that hate.

    Do you think it?s healthy to perpetuate yourselves as victims? This is something I think a lot of people do. (Not just on this forum.) They become addicted to the attention, so they become the perpetual victim, and whine about their wounds, but never really heal.

    Which of you was unable to leave the JW?s due to a gun being held to your head? When I was a Witness, I was always given the impression that if the ?truth? wasn?t for you, then you were free to leave. Of course, there will be those who would try to ?help? you not leave and tell you that your decision was wrong. It would seem that somehow you?d make peace with no longer being a JW and stop fixating on them.

    It seems that you try to villianize the JW?s for your disfellowshipping and the subsequence shunning that comes from former JW friends and your JW family members. Every Organization has rules, right or wrong, and you knew what would get you disfellowshipped, not saying that everyone got a fair shake, but that happens in life. The fact that your family and friends won?t talk to you is a decision they make, because of a decision you made, caused by all of you choosing, at some point or another, to live by these rules. The subtle way around this reality is to portray the WTS Organization as a monster or cult that has your former friends and family as victims, thus relieving them of any responsibility, in your eyes. (Not sure where the question was in that one, just an observation I guess.)

    Also I?d like to ask the following questions, just out of curiosity, feel free to answer or ignore, cause they are personal questions:

    Who here thinks they are Jehovah God?

    Who here thinks they are Jesus Christ?

    Who here thinks they are of the anointed?

    Who here thinks they are going to heaven, but are not necessarily anointed?

    I personally answer negative to all the above, just to be fair and answer them myself.

    On another note I just want to say, that I realize that some of you were wronged by overzealous Elders, or molested by a so-called brother that went without punishment. I won?t sit here and deny that those things can?t or haven?t happened. You have my sympathy. I just know that I was never taught that anyone in the WTS Organization, from the Lowliest Publisher to the Governing Body, where infallible. With that said, mistakes will be and have been made, but we all have to answer for ourselves. Those with more responsibilities, have more to answer for.

    My personal position is that I do not think I will ever return to the JW Organization, whether they are right or wrong, I don?t really know. I do believe in Jehovah, and that this system will have an end. How, Where, When . . . Jehovah knows. If I?m given life or judged as an apostate, I cannot argue with his final judgment of me, it will be absolutely fair.

    I just want to take the time to re-state the fact that this is not an attack on this community, or any individual in it. My writing style has often been perceived as hostile when that wasn?t the intention. I do understand that these are emotionally charged issues, and I don?t know everyone?s situation and that along the way I?ve more that likely offended someone. I?ll apologize in advance.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Hi Frobisher; while some might hate; most of what you see is outrage at the real harm WTS policies and doctrines have caused people who post here. I'm glad you weren't harmed by your WT experience; not all of us had been so lucky. Many of us have moved on personally but stick around to help new people just dealing with their outrage.

    If you had a family member who died because of the deceptive and hypocritical blood policy...

    If you had a family member or were molested by a member of the congregation and then were told not to go to the police, that 2 eyewitnesses were necessary....

    If you were told that you had to be separate from the world or be DF'd and found that the WTS had associated itself for 10 years with the United Nations...

    Blondie

  • jwbot
    jwbot
    Which of you was unable to leave the JW?s due to a gun being held to your head? When I was a Witness, I was always given the impression that if the ?truth? wasn?t for you, then you were free to leave. Of course, there will be those who would try to ?help? you not leave and tell you that your decision was wrong. It would seem that somehow you?d make peace with no longer being a JW and stop fixating on them.

    I do not think a lot of what you said applies to me, but I supposed I can answer the above question. In my personal experience, it was way way waaaay harder to leave, than stay. In fact, I am very proud of myself in that I was strong enough to leave. You are not just leaving a belief, a religion, you are leaving a life, friends and family...not that you want to leave those things, but those things will leave you. When I said I could not in good conscence be a JW, my family and friends could not accept that. They had what is called "conditional love" and that is not the type of association I can have and be mentally sound. The unfortunate thing is I can not make peace. My family is forever broken up. Even if they did try and mend things with me, it could never be the same. I would accept them with open arms but I know their true selves... It really hurts because it is like my mother, father, brother two sisters and two nephews were in a plane crash and all died....could you ever get over that? Could you ever be at peace after that? Its not just leaving a religion...its everything leaving you.

  • avishai
    avishai
    Do you think it?s healthy to be bound together in hatred? I know you?ll say your giving each other support, and I?m sure you do, but the venom in the snide remarks and labels that you give the WTS, GB, Elders, and other brothers/sisters . . . is nothing more that hate.

    I don't on the whole hate individual witnesses. The policies and arrogance that causes those policies? Damn right I hate them. And as far as the Do I think it's healthy? No. Do you think it's healthy for the brothers to not turn in a child molester, who goes on to molest tons more children? Do you? Do you think it's healthy for the brothers to cover it up, time and time again, in the interest of "Defendiing Jehovahs name"?

    Do you think it?s healthy to perpetuate yourselves as victims?

    Who's doing that? Standing up to the one who abused you is NOT victim behavior. Most Jw's will say "Just be quiet, make peace, don't say anything, and JAh will take care of it in due time" That IS victim behavior.

    This is something I think a lot of people do

    They become addicted to the attention, so they become the perpetual victim, and whine about their wounds, but never really heal.

    I think that that scenario is pretty rare.

  • Badger
    Badger

    Welcome to the board...

    We aren't bound together by hate...we all share (like you) the direct or indirect effects of the teachings and practices of the org.

    When the WTS send people out and removes the entirety of the family and friends but snapping away their interpersonal relationships...they need to make up...

    Yes, some of us are victims. We aren't wallowing in it, we just are bound and determined not to let it happen to us again. That attitude may make us seem bitter, but in fact it will save us and hopefully others from the same struggles.

    Besides, many of us made the decision to join at a young age. In the outside world, you can't sign a contract of any weight by yourself as a minor. Hell, you can committ murder at 14 and all is forgiven...But to a 13-year-old who is pressured by litterally everyone to devote himself to such a cause, the JW's blithely encourage.

    And no, the GB never uses the term "infallible" But they have every utterance of the meeting defended from even discussion under penalty of disfellowshipping.

    IF the GB does not consider themselves or their decisions infallible:

    WHY were the authors of Aid to Bible Understanding urged to overlook archealogical and third party evidience and findings in favor of views that were absolutely indefensable?

    WHY did the GB deem it proper to allow Mexican witnesses commit crime (bribery and forgery) to avoid the harsh conseqences of not submitting to conscription, while Malawi brothers were slaughtered because they weren't allowed by the WT teachings to do the same thing?

    WHY has the WT been routinely edited from its orignal printings to allow plausible deniablity to past errors in "prophetic light?"

    WHY would the average witness be disfellowshipped in short order for getting a YMCA membership to swim or lift weights, but the WTS can join the "Great Beast" of the UN for an alleged library card?

    I'm glad you're out and it didn't stick....for some of us, it stuck and was like getting a bikini wax with salted duct tape to get off.

  • Poztate
    Poztate
    Which of you was unable to leave the JW?s due to a gun being held to your head?

    Almost every one that joins this cult has from that moment onward had a gun held to their head.

    Most JW's who join also have family in the cult,marry in the cult or develop close friends in the cult.

    NOW...Try to write a letter that says...gee I just don't want to be a JW anymore,but I haven't done anything wrong so could I just leave with no fuss.Don't make me laugh...You would be DA'ed in the blink of an eye.No more friends..no more family.You are treated the same as DF'ed persons. They are just waiting to pull the trigger on you.

  • Special K
    Special K

    One question back

    Since you're disfellowshipped and all your family remainded as J.W.s am I to take that

    you are 100% shunned by them, not welcome in their home, no phone calls, no contact...etc.

    You probably haven't seen your parents and the rest of your JW family since being disfellowshipped as has been the WTS curse on a lot of us disfellowshipped. Hmm? interesting that you are not bitter about any of that kind of treatment by your family.

    Special K

    (I'm just trying to paint a picture here in my mind Frobisher, that's all. I'm not trying to bring you down. You ask and articulate very well what you are trying to understand in your post question)

    .....

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    ... ... Welcome !!!

  • ApagaLaLuz
    ApagaLaLuz
    Do you think it?s healthy to be bound together in hatred?

    Hatred is something that is very hard for me to find in my heart. I do not hate the Jehovah's Witnesses. Sometimes I feel pity, but I still have alot of respect for a great many of them, and some I dont respect.

    Do you think it?s healthy to perpetuate yourselves as victims?

    You're right, being a perpetual victim is not healthy. I have a sister who at 36 continues to dwell uppon being victimized at 10 and uses it as an excuse. There comes a time for healing, people heal at different speeds. And I for one do not perpetuate myself as a victim whatsoever2

    Which of you was unable to leave the JW?s due to a gun being held to your head?

    Everyone's situation is a little different. Sure there is a mask of free will, but the consequences are too much for some people. Some people loose all relationship swith Mothers and Fathers, children, spouses and siblings. The guilt and risk of shunning for some is a figurative loaded gun.

    It seems that you try to villianize the JW?s for your disfellowshipping and the subsequence shunning that comes from former JW friends and your JW family members.

    I have not been disfellowshipped and left of my own accord. I villianize the JW organization for misleading their people, and having such control that they cause such sadness in many people's lives. I villianize their hypocrasy in keeping things such as child abuse and a relationship with the UN a secret from their members.

    BTW I certainly dont claim to be Jesus or Jehovah or Annointed (though we do have some on this board who once did claim to be annointed)or on my way to heaven. I'm just a lowly human being, who was taught a false religion for most of my life.

    I just want to take the time to re-state the fact that this is not an attack on this community, or any individual in it.

    So what is the point of your post then?

    My writing style has often been perceived as hostile when that wasn?t the intention.
    Now why do you think that is?
  • Frobrisher
    Frobrisher

    I had a bunch of quotes and answers but it seems the forum had an error and ate them. . . .I'll repost my replys tomorrow. Thank you all for your feedbacks and points of view.

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