Did Jesus Condone "Pederasty"?

by DevonMcBride 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  dh

  It WAS uncommon in Rome...as has been pointed out. A centurion, as in our story, would have had several personal slaves...being they traveled together and were in close contact, and depended on one another, it would NOT be uncommon for a close paternal relationship to develop

  yeru,

  i'm not disputing these things, or trying to make a case that this guy in this scripture was keeping young boys for purposes of sex, my point was only that this sort of thing goes on now, and must have done then as well.

  it's worth bearing in mind that similar things even get portrayed in movies, i remember in spartacus where some roman honcho is showing homosexual desires toward tony curtis who played the role of a gentle (camp) young man, in the movie tony curtis runs away to join spartacus to get away from his roman master who had desires to use him otherwise.

  i'm sure i have seen similar things are in other roman period movies as well, maybe it was not common, but i think throughout that period it happened enough for the question in this topic to be valid and worth asking.
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  Yerusalyim

  it's worth bearing in mind that similar things even get portrayed in movies, i remember in spartacus where some roman honcho is showing homosexual desires toward tony curtis who played the role of a gentle (camp) young man, in the movie tony curtis runs away to join spartacus to get away from his roman master who had desires to use him otherwise.

  Ummm, that was a movie.

  Yes, it did happen. The Roman Dictator Sulla was rumored to be fond of young men. Ceasar was rumored to have given it up to a king in Bythania when he was a young man...but all these "rumors" were started as epitaths, to ruin their reputations. (More than likely it was true of Sulla but not of Ceasar). Even in the most decandant days of the Empire it had to be an "open secret" that Marcus Aeurilius was gay.

  The point being...there is absolutely ZERO evidence to even SUGGEST that the Centurion mentioned was sexually interested in the lad...especially considering he was a "righteous gentile"...one who accepted the Jewish God without converting.
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Let us examine the Greek word "pais" and see what its definition actually is:

  According to a Lexicon found at http://www.blueletterBible.org this is the definition of "pais":

  1) a child, boy or girl

  a) infants, children

  2) servant, slave

  a) an attendant, servant, spec. a king's attendant, minister

  According to Thayer's Greek Bible Dictionary, the definition of "pais" is:

  1: a child, boy or girl. Plural: infants; children

  Now, let us examine several of the different Verses in the Bible where that same Greek word ("pais") is used:

  Matthew 2:16: Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children ["pais"] that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.

  Were all of those "children" that were murdered being kept for sexual purposes? Did Herod only order that children who were kept for sexual purposes be destroyed?

  No, that would be insane.

  Matthew 12:18: Behold my servant ["pais"], whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

  Jesus was "The Pais" of God The Father. Are you claiming that this is a sexual relationship?

  Matthew 21:15: And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children ["pais"] crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,

  Were all of those children in the temple kept for sexual purposes?

  Luke 1:54: He hath holpen his servant ["pais"] Israel, in remembrance of [his] mercy;

  Israel was God's "pais". Are you claiming that God had a sexual relationship with Israel? I hope not.

  Luke 1:69: And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant ["pais"] David;

  David was God's "pais". Are you claiming that God had a sexual relationship with David? I hope not.

  Luke 2:43: And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child ["pais"] Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not [of it].

  Luke 2:43 describes Jesus as a "pais" of Joseph and Mary.

  Acts 3:13: The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son ["pais"] Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [him] go.

  Once again, Jesus is called "The Pais" of God The Father, and also in Acts 3:26, 4:25, 4:27, and 4:30.

  So, as is extremely obvious, the Greek word "Pais" is used in the Bible for children (boys or girls) plain and simple.

  There is absolutely nothing sexual implied AT ALL in the Bible in connection with this word.
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  Leolaia

  From what I recall, Joseph was the PAIS of Potiphar (LXX, Genesis) too.