Invitation To Americans To Find Fault With The British..

by Englishman 145 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Abaddon

  dubla, I don't think that you commented on this thread previously, so maybe with you it is indifference. Although you're not indifferent enough to not read the thread, so...

  But Stinky, as you've posted several times already on this thread you've blown any pretense of indifference.

  I was always under the impression that is only by comparing and contrasting that we can see where 'we' (as in a country's citizens) are. If you want to be insular, and don't think anything can be learned from other countries, then you can claim indifference. Go ahead. Without talking about differences a lot of people would still think bronze tools and fire were pretty neat ideas. You might think that politics and culture is different from technology. I disagree.

  Of course, I find discrimination in the UK as bad a thing as discrimination in the USA. At least neither are as bad as the Taliban, but then neither are as good as some Northern European countries. Oh... hang on, surely not... can we by examining how our individual countries (and other countries) are in realtion to no-doubt worst and best examples actually determine if we need to get better?If you're not going to change discrimination by politics, how will you? Of course, if you have a tacit assumption that where you're at's the best anyway... why care about the rest of the world?

  Likewise, Europeans stopped judicial executions years ago. The USA think it's still a neat idea, despite the provable injustice of it, not only in wrongful convictions, but in the increased liklihood that a black person will be executed for the same crime as a white person. I can't believe you're NOT interested in that, and THAT'S not going to change without politics either.

  Englishman... yup, the Americans I've met in Europe, both students and business people, are NOT representative of this board nor of the US opinion polls I read. It's the same with Australians who travel too, apparently.

  And here's the stats, or as near as you can get them

  http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2003/01/31/how_many_america.php

  About 1 in 5 Americans own passports. Not much, is it? Kind of explains a lot even if there are 'no fault' reasons for it as well.

  Stinky

  I could bitch about their politics and political leaders all day long, but it would accomplish nothing.

  Yeah, I suppose all those people who bitched to their MPs (representatives) about the South African apartheid reigeme needing sanctions were WASTING THEIR TIME!? I suppose people who in any way have criticised other countries for bad things they have or are doing were just wasting their time? So, Austria being castigated for electing neo-nazis (they should know better), Germany for having racist citizenship law, France for being religioiusly bigoted? We should just SAY NOTHING?

  Surely if people think women being discriminated against/people being killed by the legal system/blacks being oppressed/neonazi politicians/racists citizenship laws/religous discrimination are normal and acceptable (as they may well do if they are born there and don't look away from their navel) it's a good idea for them tto be exposed to information which makes them realise they are wrong or misguided.

  How can they change from undoubted wrongs unless they realise there are alternatives and that there are reasoned arguments why they are good ones?

  Same with people bitching about the U.S. Other than alienating some people, what does it accomplish? You aren't opening anyone's eyes if all you show is your contempt for their country.

  So, it's not okay to bitch about the USA (you know, discrimination in the death penalty, invading countries for contrived reasons and then saying they did it for another reason, little things like that), but if the USA wants to invade (a heavy form of criticism) another country (or impose sanctions, or threaten invasion) then lah-dee-dah?

  It only alienates the audience that you are trying to reach.

  Yeah, that's what all the liberals have been saying for years... oh, sorry, I'm talking about invasions again...

  Seems counter-productive.

  Hang on, are you talking about invasions now?

  If changing U.S. policy is your obsession: Gain citizenship and vote.

  Okay, so by your theory George Bush should have become an Iraqi? I like it, I like it a lot... or is it only the USA you feel is above criticism?

  Become a lobbyist or lawyer and fight to see laws/policy changed. Or even run for office (non-presidency of course).

  Well, just as well you're not suggesting the Presidency... I'm afraid you live in a country where although you were born there YOU have bugger all chance of that, due to missing a vital chromosome required for leading a country (well, excluding some European ones and India and Indonesia where a Y chromosome is not seen as a pre-requisit of the highest office) and having the wrong racial ancestry.

  Now I think that sucks. Do you really want me NOT to criticise that?

  My fellow Americans, I'm going to have to ask you to quit being a bunch of goddamn sissies and whiney can't-take-criticism titty babies.

  Thanks six. That had to go from an American to Americans. QUite how people of the richest and most powerful country in the world can feel SO sorry for themselves is beyond me. Grow the coitus up.

  Also, few Americans factor in being a super power (the super power) is a hard job. You get less thanks than you may deserve, and people will hang your mistakes on you like there is no tomorrow.

  If you don't like that, maybe you should stop living in a superpower. Head south, I hear Mexico's lovely...

  dubla

  where would that be exactly? most of the criticism is leveled on our politicians (obviously not us personally)....so what can one do to "fix it", other than vote? write to our senators?

  Hey, those who voted for the monkey have some degree of responsibility. This is not like playing 'Wheel of Fortune' at home whilst you watch it. Bad choices have negative consequences.

  Yes. Vote and lobby. Or sit by and watch (FOX?) (that was a joke).

  The choice is yours...

  ...and where did ANY English person in this thread claim 'we are the greatest' dubla?
• 

  dubla

  abaddon-
  

  I don't think that you commented on this thread previously, so maybe with you it is indifference. Although you're not indifferent enough to not read the thread, so...

  yeah, i was definitely curious.......and to be honest, when i first saw the title i thought to myself "i bet there won't really be any "bashing" or real "fault finding" on here...probably just a bunch of jokes", which is exactly what i found......reason being, we americans (in general) just dont get the same kick out of it.

  i think the majority of americans on the board could care less to point out the problems with the british legal system, for example, which was where my "indifference" comment came from. sure, we might read the discussions and chime in from time to time (in reality, there are very few discussions about the british to begin with), but when it comes down to it, we just arent as obsessed with the flaws of others.....we have enough problems here to worry about without spending our energy worrying and complaining about the shortcomings of every other country. i understand its a bit of a pastime for the british......(eman claims it may be due to increased travel).......so maybe its just a cultural thing.
  

  Yes. Vote and lobby.

  these are obvious choices, but they only get one individual so far. my state, for example, hasnt voted "democrat" since 1960 (i believe).....not saying that my vote doesnt count, but in reality it would take a monumental change of heart in the area to go along with my kerry vote to change the outcome......if i were to vote kerry of course.

  and where did ANY English person in this thread claim 'we are the greatest' dubla?

  i never said they did....what i said was there are sweeping generalizations and implications of "we are better" on this forum. if youd really like me to collect a sample list, i can do that. let me know...itll be a bit of a time consuming project, but i am willing.

  If you don't like that, maybe you should stop living in a superpower. Head south, I hear Mexico's lovely...

  there was a time in my life i actually considered that.....the weather is beautiful, and the worries are few.

  aa
• 

  Xena

  Regarding the passport issue...we don't need passports to travel to Mexico, Canada or some of the caribbean islands. I believe they might be changing that but the times I went I only needed a birthcertificate, so that might skew with your numbers a bit...unless you don't count that as foreign travel

  If I saw something specificially wrong with Britian that I felt my commenting on might effect some change with then I would probably say something..otherwise it's just gratuitous bitching.
• 

  funkyderek

  Do you have to be American to participate in this thread, or can anyone from a former colony have a go?
• 

  Abaddon

  Lay in funky...

  ... us Brits crapped all over Ireland, we deserve it...
• 

  Cassiline

  Invitation To Americans To Find Fault With The British..
  

  I thought we ought to even things up a little..

  Go for it!

  
  Respectfully Abaddon, Simon and Englishman
  

  This thread was started by E-man who thought he would even thing up a bit because it seems to me he thought that perhaps a little too much American Bashing was going on. The thread was 99 percent tame and 99 percent in jest by responding posters. After my initial comment I felt that this thread would turn into an American bashing thread and I shut up about not understanding the royal family.

  Hell I don?t understand why my tax dollars are spent on protecting presidential dogs and presidents and family member?s years after they have left. I don?t understand why the Military is allowed to spend 6 million dollars a day on advertising.

  But I write and have spoken to my congressmen and women, my countrymen speak and write to congress to bitch about such. But because it seems that there is this broad encompassing belief that Americans do not do such and other people who see such from other countries and think that we don?t care and don?t do a damn thing is what sparks much of the controversy. No one know how much many here do because you do not see the letters, you do not view the Congressional hearings. Rallys and such are only put on the news when it suits the media etc, etc.

  I could bitch about their politics and political leaders all day long, but it would accomplish nothing.~~StinkyP

  Yeah, I suppose all those people who bitched to their MPs (representatives) about the South African apartheid reigeme needing sanctions were WASTING THEIR TIME!? I suppose people who in any way have criticised other countries for bad things they have or are doing were just wasting their time? So, Austria being castigated for electing neo-nazis (they should know better), Germany for having racist citizenship law, France for being religioiusly bigoted? We should just SAY NOTHING?~~ Abaddon

  I believe Stinky was referring to the constant bashing of Bush and others here in this forum and stating that even if she were to say Blair is a ?no nothing idiot? whose agenda is that of a monkey it will not accomplish anything. We will not be able to change your political system, no matter how much we bitch about it. Same way no matter how many Americans bitch about a royal family and PM is not going to change your system?as the British bitching about ours will not change how it is run.

  However Americans do the same, spoke against apartheid in congress and nationally and on the scene in Africa to try and change that oppressive regime. Americans and British have spoken out in the past to the point of going to war for those oppressed in Germany. However what I take from your comments is that, your or anyone who is not American speaking against Bush may change his reign if you will. This is what our elections do and just as you have your royalty and it is in place and seems as if it will stay that way forever our election process will stay the same as well. I believe much of American 'helping' started with good intentions-- it just changed direction when those who needed it saw the power it could bring.

  That won?t change. There are many who disagree here that why there are so many parties?trying to make a difference but perhaps a too slow one? Perhaps those afraid Bush will be voted in again? It all unfortunately does not come down to what he has to offer-- but party lines and this is changing IMO slowly by the adding of new parties so ones choice is not so limited. But the stubbornness of Republicans and Democrats to stay along party lines instead of voting in someone who could bring about change is not happening. British regime has been in place for hundreds and hundreds of years the opposite of America?s young political system.

  However changing the 'icouldgiveashitless' about anyone but me because my country is bountiful, the best, can change and I do believe it is changing for the better--allbeit slowly. Those attitudes are not indicative of all Americans anymore, there are too many who travel to help countries in need and those who try and support through donations and time to those in need as well.

  Americans are a melting pot who are not one nationality under god but that of hundreds of nationality?s who emigrated here from countries which were oppressive. Perhaps that has some to do with the indifference you see? Those who left never want to travel the road to rags or oppression again and feel if I can make a better life for myself-- then anyone can.

  Many are living a better life than that which they were and many are here trying to do so but failing because they had too high expectations?because you know America is the best! I can do anything! But in all reality they need to work and speak out to assure that life they need. And in trying to attain such they forget about their roots and past because it may be too painful to remember or because they are too intent on living the ever evading ?American Dream? to see past their nose.

  I will be the first to agree that many Americans are couch potatoes and arm chair politicians but America came into power very quickly outgrew it?s britches, became pompous and arrogant due to that fact, and now the reality is hitting many Americans who do wish to change. A slow process which many are dealing with and do not appreciate being lumped into the title of all, you, it them.

  Now please don't hit me--PLEASE.

  I would like to ask if perhaps some of this hatred may be from the fact that young Americans are indeed British, and in fact the polotical system we see was made by Ex-British citizens. Many of us are inherintly British or European ourselves-- is it because you expected better from your own or maybe some of the American hatred by some Brtis could come down to jealousy-- in the fact the the US became powerful so quickly? I am not saying this is now today but years and years ago when it was said 'The Colonies' would never amount to anything and prisoners and such were sent here as punishment. And the resentment has carried over generations, as I am sure resentment from those fleeing now American's towards the British. America was not supossed to make it, but overcame may obsticals to do so-- perhaps that is where some of the American arrogance comes from as well--OK big breath out.

  Cassi