Subtle Propaganda at DC -but Noticeable To Us

by Had Enough 31 Replies latest jw friends

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  waiting

  Hello Ozzie (in my best pre-xjw voice imitation)

  Yet what were his 'qualifications'? A foremost scholar of his time. Quite clearly Jesus had a very good reason(s) for selecting him. Not, we notice, someone "unlettered and ordinary". Yet he was to take the Gospel to the nations, doing a work of perhaps greater scope than Peter and the other apostles. It seems he did need higher education

  Yes, but we would do well to remember that Paul got his ungodly higher education before Jesus chose him. Which shows us that if God wants a lawyer, doctor, accountant in His Organization, He is quite capable of picking that person and bringing him in. We don't have to go outside His Organization trying to help God, now do we?

  After receiving God's holy spirit and turning around - Paul didn't pursue higher education any longer - but pioneered to the nations. Which shows us what truly is important, doesn't it? And, remember, Paul made tents after his turning around - he didn't want that extravagant lifestyle of the degraded Romans with all their gold and flashy gowns. Something we all would do well to think about in this time of the end rushing in upon us. And we are so thankful to God's Organization and the Faithful and Discreet Slave for bringing this information to us in a timely fashion.... (on and on and on and.....)

  Don'tcha just luuuuuv it the way most anything can be turned on it's jw ear with enough trigger words and unreasoning power?

  I remember the Moses vs Korah dramas also. We thought the sound effects of the earthquake etc were quite the cool thing. Shows it didn't take much to impress us on a sleepy afternoon.

  I agree with some of the others (always Red) we read into it whatever guilt we're supposed to (our hidden desires or abilities) i.e. now - information about WTBTS, speaking with others about doubts, enough schooling, a life above blue collar (speaking in general, of course.)

  The WTBTS lays the Guilt Banquet out for us - we know as jw's which plate we're supposed to eat (and learn as jw's) from.

  I would imagine a lot of people picked up on the Internet Guilt platter - shows that a lot of people are picking up the Internet, eh?

  hey larc

  Good point about the professors. Most kids when I was in school turned off imediately if a teacher/professor brought his religion into a topic which had nothing to do with religion.

  Hey Had Enough!

  Thanks for the update. Last assembly I went to - our 80 year old PO of my cong. said at least 5 different times that The Internet and computers were the main spiritual threat in our congregation. Yeah, right. He's a lying thief, but that's not a spiritual threat, eh?

  waiting
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  bwoga

  Had Enough.......thanks for the overview of the DC.....although it was enough to make me gag....

  Can you believe we used to buy into that BS.... They are so hard on higher education because they know the only way to keep people docile and subserviant is to keep them ignorant....much like slave owners.....it was at one time illegal for blacks to learn to read and write...for fear they could then communicate thoughts and ideas on a wide scale.....sounds familiar??? Reading your summary literally made me nauseated....(nothing personal)!

  I can't believe I belonged to an organization that discourages "INDEPENDENT THINKING"....how damned insulting! They don't even think you're inteligent enough to have an original thought! As for the Dramas........typical....do not question the org..do not express your thoughts or opinions.....do as we say and you'll be fine.....question us and you'll die at armageddon....same old bullshit just a new way to say it.... Thanks for your post!
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  outnfree

  Had Enough,

  Thanks for the post.

  That Korah vs. Moses theme was used by my local elders at the meeting they held with me after I submitted my DA letter - LOL!!! (And wasn't the drama with that same theme only, like, TWO years ago? Talk about 'repetition for emphasis'! -- and ditto for the "[non]-pursuit of higher education!)

  I had to add to Ozzie's point about John and Peter (btw, wasa, LOVED your totally "WT spirit-directed" rebuttal! ).

  John and Peter already had a trade that would earn them a living. But once they became disciples, they were to become ministers who were "workmen worthy of their wages." In other words, they were PAID CLERGY!!! Maybe not paid in cash -- but in shelter, food, clothing -- by the congregations they served! They certainly didn't go back to fishing -- they were chastened by Christ for having done that (according to John's gospel). At least, the above is what I infer from the Bible. Who BUT Paul makes a point of saying he toiled at a secular job so as not to burden the congregations? (Perhaps a bit of grandstanding on his part?-- Look at me, learned Paul, I'm sewing tents in the marketplace, earning respect from the other merchants, while using this venue to effective further my mission of spreading the good news.)

  Who among us wouldn't be willing to put up with -- house & feed -- itinerant preacher of a message that appealed to us? And in the Mediterranean world of the 1st century (heck! even today!) that would be perfectly in character.

  But John and Peter (and Paul) were SPECIALLY APPOINTED by Christ Jesus -- members of the anointed, in JW speak, as well!!!

  Today, your average JW minister, has NO personal experience with Christ and is NOT a member of the anointed. He's just 'a man like us'. And thus can get his own butt out the door to provide for himself and his family -- just like we do! And therefore, should be allowed to do WHATEVER IT TAKES (including higher education) so as not to be a burden on the brothers. IMHO.

  outnfree
  (ruefully laughing!)
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  ozziepost

  G'day outnfree,

  To add to your point about the apostles being a "paid clergy", Bethelites are the modern equivalents and they are paid, aren't they? They receive an allowance and their keep. I have checked with clergymen and women of various denominations in our state and it seems they get a similar type of living allowance. So JWs are being fooled into condemning 'wicked' Christendom for something they themselves do. Who said "hypocrisy"?

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  "Truth persuades by teaching, but does not teach by persuading."
  TERTULLIAN, Adversus Valentinianos
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  Flip

  Hello Had 'Enuff', thank you for the information!

  I find your following observation clearly illustrates that, because Brother Alton was most likely repeating the WTBTS script verbatim, the executives controlling the organization are either sadly lacking understanding or absolutely disingenuous by expressing a fallacious argument in the attempt to promote a corporate agenda.

  - Bob Alton, said Peter and John were outspoken about God’s Word and were unlettered and ordinary men – they didn’t need higher education to speak wondrous things of God. - right…we need an education to live!

  However the WTBTS has obviously become a wealthy thus influential commercial enterprise, and the few who control the publishing company didn’t achieve their financial goals because they lack understanding.

  Unless, of course as any loyal Jehovah’s Witness would exclaim in the effort to squelch reality, “…the comments were taken out of context”.

  Flip
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  Tesha

  Had enough, excuse my ignorance if this comment seems naive. Although I am a junior member to this sight, i have been an ex-JW for long enough to form an opinion. I can appreciate and understand everything you wrote. Yes, it is twisted. All of it, the teachings and beliefs, the old men who control the minds and the pathetic suckers who lap it up. My question to you is why you go back for more? Why do you go to the DC? Why waste precious thinking time analysing what we already know. That it is one big justification of a weak, sick way of life.
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  Had Enough

  Hi all:
  Thanks for your input on this.

  I just can't help but feel that some things, brought out and pounded on in talks by COs and DOs and Bethelites, are a result of the flack and exposure they are getting on the internet and they're trying to downplay it or justify it or come down even harder on some things that are giving them problems.

  The more people get curious and are exposed to the facts and experiences and info on all the things the WTS has gotten wrong that most don't know about, then the more the numbers are going to be affected. But I think no matter how much they rant and rave about loyalty to the org, there will be an increase in "defectors" who buckle under the pressure or who gradually have their eyes opened by info on the net.

  I know that I am grateful for the net for helping to bring me out of the "fog".

  Had Enough
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  Had Enough

  Good Evening Ozzie:

  Yes it is good to be home....my bottom is not quite so numb now.

  I don't think I could do it for the rest of my family if it wasn't for the help my mom needs, even though she doesn't get much out of it as she sleeps through so much of it. (she won't admit it though, stubbon little mite). I certainly don't blame Mrs. Ozzie for not going. I wonder if I would have done it if I didn't have mom to help.

  Interesting thought on Paul be educated and chosen to do the extensive organizing and preaching work. I don't recall thinking of his status before in regard to higher learning. And you're right...we only hear of the "unlettered and ordinary" men don't we...that suits their goal more of denouncing higher education.

  Had Enough
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  Tesha

  You're right, the internet is a good medium to reach all of the uninformed "sheep" out there. It has not only lifted the fog from my head, but it has made me realise that I am not the only one out there who questions this organisation. For a while I did wonder.

  Tesha
  Australia
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  ozziepost

  G'day Tesha,

  Welcome to this happy happening place! We're always glad to welcome 'newbies' and enjoy their fresh input.

  You may have heard of the bbq's we have from time to time. Jang arranges some up in Brisbane, and for the raucous New South Wales crowd, we generally have one not too far from Sydney. E-mail me if you'd like details. Anyone who is finding it a little (or a lot) uncomfortable with their JW past (and maybe future, too) is most welcome. We can't pretend to be 'normal' but we are friendly and we don't stand out in a crowd!

  When you asked Had_Enough why she attended the DC, please bear in mind that, because of family considerations, not all have been able to cease some JW association. For some, if not many, now is not the right time to 'come out', as it were. Despite this they have mentally left the borg, and hence we are able to have the pleasure of their company right now.

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  "Truth persuades by teaching, but does not teach by persuading."
  TERTULLIAN, Adversus Valentinianos