An honest question...

by TallTexan 35 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  TallTexan

  Let me preface this by saying that what I'm asking is a legitimate question. I'm not doubting anyone, or accusing anyone of lying, or being an a-hole (well, no more than usual). If you have a legitimate response to my question, please post or PM me, but please do not throw rocks or otherwise abuse me because this is an honest question regarding molestation w/in the JW community.

  I was an active JW for 25 years and have continued to be associated with my still-JW friends for ten years since. In my years in the 'truth' I've known hundreds of JW's. Growing up as a JW I closely associated with a number of teens in my area. In all that time, knowing all those people, knowing how 'gossip' gets around, I've only heard of ONE case of molestation by a JW. In this case, he was immediately df'd and reported to the police and did some time in jail. This was in the early 80's, so it was not as a result of the recent publicity. We all know how, even though judicial meetings and reasons for df'ing are supposed to be 'secret', the 'real' reason gets around. Usually when there is a problem, even if it is not 'openly' acknowledged by the WTS, there are some parts or counsel in the mags or publications. I never heard of there being any type of problem up until recently, when supposedly this has been going on for years. In the meantime, we all knew who in our halls were drinking too much, or fornicating, or doing other things they weren't supposed to be doing, but I never heard anything about this. (o.k...I've beat this point to death).

  In spite of my disdain for the WTS, when I saw the thing on Dateline, I immediately dismissed it as hype of a few isolated instances. However, as I've been doing more research, I see more and more info on this. Most of what I see is on the POLICY, and how the POLICY can, through it's implementation, protect child molesters. I agree that the policy is very poor and immediate changes should be made and enforced.

  What I don't see is overwhelming proof that molestation has occurred in any more frequency than in any other aspect of life or organization. In Bill Bowen's resignation letter as an elder, he writes that this policy will (not could) subject one in three witness children to molestation. Where is the documented proof of that? Again, most of the news articles and things relate to how the POLICY is in error and can protect pedophiles, but claim that molestation is rampant without offering any actual proof. I realize that there are children w/in the WTS that are molested, but that can be said everywhere (unfortunately). But to say that a third of witness kids have been or will be molested seems a little off-base to me. Further, I think that by classifying it as an 'organization of pedophiles' or calling them the 'pedophile at your door' is irresponsible and does a disservice to the many, many decent JW's who are sincere (even if they are extremely deluded) and find child molestation as abhorrent as do all normal people.

  I guess what I'm asking for is someone to point me in the right direction towards the proof that this is happening on the scale purported. Now, before anyone gets on their high horse and starts telling me I just don't understand, let me share that I was molested by a non-JW relative, so if anyone understands anything about this topic, it's me. I know what it can and does do to people and how it has affected me my entire life. Even one molested child anywhere in the world is one too many, and I personally support the death penalty for serial abusers. In fact, I'd carry it out myself w/ no remorse. I'm just looking for answers, so anyone that can give them to me I would greatly appreciate.
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  kls

  You have never seen a poster write about Silentlambs.com.
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  Valis

  What I don't see is overwhelming proof that molestation has occurred in any more frequency than in any other aspect of life or organization.

  Hey TallT...I think one of the issues is not frequency, but the matter in which it has been and is being handled now. It wouldn't matter if there were one or one thousand...Besides do you think the WTBTS is going to come out and say "Hey gang! This is the entire list of all reported acts of pedophilia we've ever encountered!"...Eh not very likely huh?

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
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  Lehaa

  I've heard of a few cases, and personally been involved with one. my son being abused by an unbaptised publisher.

  I don't think it happens any more in the JW religion than any where else. It's unfortunately a worldwide problem that is not bound by race, religion or social status. Just ask the police of your local sexual abuse team.

  What i hate the most is that the Members of the JW have always claimed to be better than others because they don't allow it to happen in their ranks. But I suppose that hapens in all other churches or groups.
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  pratt1

  I agree with many points you raised in your post. However, in your last paragraph, you stated that even one molested child is too much - that statement says it all.

  When an organization proclaims to be different from the world and places itself above the standards of the world, then they should be held to that higher standard. You can't have it both ways. Either you are God's chosen people and have his approval or you don't, and you are just like every other religion.

  I was raised as a Dub and I only know of 2 child molestation incidents, but think about how many other children were probably molested and was afraid to make an accusation against the congregation member because of either not being believed or becoming marked as someone who has had sexual relations before marriage, hence you are no longer a virgin.

  I don't know if any one can make the claim that the borg has more molestation incidents than an other religion with true accuracy, how ever you can be sure that there are a lot more victims then we know about.
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  cyber-sista

  Talltex... Child molesting is a dark crime and not something talked about much in the light of day. I knew of 3 cases in my 20 years in the Org which were and had been covered over and 2 of these cases were known to very few people. The 3rd one was being covered up as quickly as possible--even though many knew about it the elders were putting stops to anyone talking about it.

  Think of how long it took the crimes to come out in the Catholic church. We never even heard about child molesting some 25 years ago--no body talked about it in the media, etc. People who had experienced this crime in years past are just now getting brave enough to step forward when they see others doing the same. Programs such as the silent lambs is giving them the voice and the strength to do so.
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  Frannie Banannie

  TT, I don't believe it's necessarily the quantity of child molestations in the WTS that's taking the limelight, but rather the quality of the WTS policy which has and WILL allow for pedophiles to continue to prey freely on unsuspecting victims.

  To get an "up close and personal" gander at the many RESULTS of the WTS ongoing policy in re: of this matter, see the personal experiences of the once silent lambs at

  http://www.silentlambs.org/personal_experiences/abused_lambs.cfm

  Frannie B
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  Farkel

  : What I don't see is overwhelming proof that molestation has occurred in any more frequency than in any other aspect of life or organization

  What's more important is that you don't see it in any LESS frequency in the WTS. The WTS has consistently claimed a far superior moral ground over other religions and groups, yet even you can see that is not true.

  Without trying to do any statistical battles about the "scope" of abuse, why don't you ponder the obvious:

  If a religious group REQUIRES two or more witnesses to child abuse, does that do more or less to protect children from abuse?

  If a small child is forced to confront the abuser face to face, does that do more or less harm to the child?

  If an abuser has been convicted in a religious court and/or sentenced to jail, and the abuser returns to the religion and religious POLICY forbids elders to notify the congregation about what that person did, does that do more or less good for the protection of the children?

  If the religious policy is that police are ONLY to be notified of abuse if the law of the community requires it, does that do more or less to protect the children?

  In short, does WTS policy do more to protect the abuser or more to protect the children?

  Farkel
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  wednesday

  i was a survivor of both rape and molestation and i kept it quiet, never telling anyone, not even my closest friends. I was told not to go to the police and threatned by the elders if i talked about it. as a result, another person was raped b/c i never said anything. It may not occur any more than in other religions, but the way JWS handle it is the key issue. They abuse the person who makes the accusation , often threatend with DF. Been there and done that. There is a strong network in the JW religion, the good ole boy religion, one to not sully the name of an elder or servant, or of Jehoavah's org. They will go to any length to prevent u from bringing reproach on them. In my case, they tried to convince me i was not raped and sided with the raptist and then he raped again and -never warned the cong. The guy just moved from my area.

  Perhaps some of your associates just never told u their deepest secerts, ie esp with molestation it is common for a young child to repress it until they reach adulthood. Or maybe none of your friends were ever victims-i hope not. But some have been and it is the way JWS handle it THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
• 

  Big Tex

  Howdy TT.

  I have no intention of attacking, I think you ask an honest and fair question. As for proof, Bowen has stated the Society has files on over 23,000 offenders inside the organization. If you consider the possibility that each offender attacked even a small number such as 2 or 3 children, the numbers then become quite large.

  As for other proof, I know of a case litigating in Amarillo wherein the accused is suspected of multiple acts of molestation. How many? I don't know, and won't until the trial. I know of other cases in California and Minnesota. As for personal knowledge I know in the Dallas area alone of 7/8 cases (forgive me, my memory isn't what it used to be and I'd have to sit down and go through some old files to make sure). I know of one where the father was an elder and covered over the abuse by another family member with full knowlege and consent of the body of elders. I know of another where the offender was convicted and sent to prison and yet the elders chose to accept him back with no restrictions whatsoever (he was at a children's skating party my children attended) at the expense of his victims who were told to keep quiet.

  In my own case, I was raped and beaten from infancy to age 5 by my father, my mother, my grandfather and at least one of my parents' freiends. My father is a ministerial servant in good standing to this day. A circuit overseer sat in my living room and told me he personally see me disfellowshipped unless I "shut up".

  It is reasonable to believe that Dallas is not the pedophile capital of the world. It is also reasonable to believe that if such experiences happened in one city, they happened in another city, and another city and so on. It is also reasonable to believe that if such experiences happened in the United States, they happened in another country and another country and so on.

  The truth about child abuse in the organization is only just now starting to come to light. It could easily be snuffed out. I pray to God it won't, but if through litigation and activism the message can be delivered to the outside world, the story, and the proof, will come out. Right now Jehovah's Witnesses are where the Cathlic Church was 10 or 15 years ago. I remember when the Rudy Kos case was litigated here in Dallas and there was an outcry amongst the parishoners who claimed it was all a lie, or just an isolated case. That was 1995. Does anyone doubt now the Catholic Church has hidden known sex offenders? (By the way The Dallas Morning News did a series of outstanding articles on this very problem among the Catholic Church just last week.)

  I hear what you're saying, but realize that child abuse does not take place in front of two eyewitnesses, nor is there videotape "proof". Very often evidence must gathered painstakingly. Unfortunately this is not an easy problem solve nor are there easy and quick places to provide proof.

  Be well,

  Chris