An honest question...

by TallTexan 35 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • iiz2cool
    iiz2cool
    What I don't see is overwhelming proof that molestation has occurred in any more frequency than in any other aspect of life or organization

    My ex was abused by 3 of her older brothers. If the first one was properly dealt with the other abuses may not have happened. And while there's no proof, there is reason to suspect that one of her brothers may have abused at least 2 other people, one being his own son.

    Keeping child abusers in prison would substantially reduce their chances of finding new victims. But that can only happen if abuses are reported.

    Walter

  • SheilaM
    SheilaM

    ((((((((((((Sphere))))))))))) DOG!!!!!! I hope there is a burning hell for them......

  • confusedjw
    confusedjw

    I served on one case in which a brother molested his younger sister.

    I know of another in which a sister was molested by an elder.

    I know of another case in which a brother was molested by a cong member / neighbor.

    I know of another accusation which I have to say I have doubts about, but kept them private.

    (little bells are going off in my mind of some more, but I can't recall the details)

  • TallTexan
    TallTexan

    Fair enough. You guys make some really valid points and I do agree that the policy definitely needs to be changed. Many of you have indeed had some pretty horrid experiences as a result of the policy and the way things are currently handled. Like I said, I in no way disbelieve any of these things, I just personally had never heard of them. My heart goes out to all of you that have experienced the application of this policy. Being molested is bad enough, but when the only 'authority' figures in your life won't even listen, it must makes it that much worse. Thanks to everyone for your candor and fair-mindedness on this post.

  • Doubtfully Yours
    Doubtfully Yours

    Here's my honest answer:

    You're absolutely correct. There isn't overwhelming proof that molestation occurs in any more frequency than in any other aspect of life or organization.

    I'm a 3rd generation JW, and can honestly say I haven't heard of any such molestation cases. However, some individuals here, based on their experience I'm sure, would have you believe that the WTBTS is the religious Capital of molestation and all sorts of other abuse.

    Regardless of our gripes and complaints about the WTBTS, such assumption/information regarding molestation and abuse is not true or fair. Speaking from my experience, of course.

    DY

  • gladtobefree
    gladtobefree

    I personally know 6 JW child molesters and one that is a former JW.

    One is my father in law. He was recently released from prison in Nevada. He has been accused of molesting at least 17 girls. The WTS knows ALL of the names and would not release them to the DA when they were prosecuting him for abusing an 8 year old girl. Before that his step-daughter had told them he had done the same thing to her and he remained an elder. His name is Daniel Fitzwater.

    One is my best friends x-step-father. He abused her for many years. He was supposedly of the "annointed".

    Another was my brothers wife's 50+ year old uncle. He was an elder and he was having full sexual relations with her when she was 14/15. When she went to the elders as an adult she actually went to "confess". She felt she had sinned and she was already baptized. He was removed for a short time and elder and then made an elder again. In 1992 he was removed again as an elder because I brought the fact to their attention that a child molester was not supposed to be an elder. I guess they forgot....

    One was a father in Yerington Nevada that molested his daughters.

    One is accused of molesting his 9 year old mentally challenged foster daughter. She was removed from the home by social services.

    2 of them I know I found out by checking the Florida sex registry. They are from Bradenton, FL. One is Richard Campos and the other (the one who is a former JW and I don't know if his crimes accurred before or after he left) Nathan Sellers.

    I have named the ones whose names are public record for their crimes. The others I will not name on a public forum.

    So to me it just seems like it happens a lot. I can not confirm that it happens within the Org more than elsewhere but I can SWEAR to the fact that I have seen their policies at work and they sure make it an alluring place for child molesters. Dan Fitzwater was just released from prison after serving his time and he has never been DFed. He still claims he never abused anyone.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee
    I was an active JW for 25 years and have continued to be associated with my still-JW friends for ten years since. In my years in the 'truth' I've known hundreds of JW's. Growing up as a JW I closely associated with a number of teens in my area. In all that time, knowing all those people, knowing how 'gossip' gets around, I've only heard of ONE case of molestation by a JW. In this case, he was immediately df'd and reported to the police and did some time in jail. This was in the early 80's, so it was not as a result of the recent publicity.

    I was abused by my non-baptized step-father way back in the 60's. He had also abused my aunt (12 yrs old - my age) and living in the same house. When he was caught abusing my aunt the presiding overseer spoke with my mother (also not baptized) and it was arranged not to contact the police and to send my aunt to live with another one of her sisters. Then they caught him abusing me. Same elder "encouraged" my mother again to not report him and I was sent into foster care. He then moved on to abuse my 5 yearolf sister. When he was caught this time he disappeared and again it was not reported to the police. My mother knew he had abused his 3 daughters by his first marriage. And we found out he moved to the US and married and became a foster parent to more girls. At least he is dead now. But maybe if he had been reposted there would be a lot fewer abused kids.

    My aunt's father who was baptized had previously abused her. That was dealt with in the courts but I have no idea what was done to him in the congregation.

    I also knew a young girl was being abused - well I suspected her elder father was abusing her. That was in the 70's. After she was grown the papers had a story that she finally went to the police about him and had him charged.

    We all know how, even though judicial meetings and reasons for df'ing are supposed to be 'secret', the 'real' reason gets around. Usually when there is a problem, even if it is not 'openly' acknowledged by the WTS, there are some parts or counsel in the mags or publications. I never heard of there being any type of problem up until recently, when supposedly this has been going on for years. In the meantime, we all knew who in our halls were drinking too much, or fornicating, or doing other things they weren't supposed to be doing, but I never heard anything about this. (o.k...I've beat this point to death).

    Child sexual abuse is a secret crime. People don't talk about it. Especially in the past it was rarely if ever talked about. Most victims remained silent for decades. It wasn't until the very late 70's and early 80's that people were beginning to address the problem professionally and the first support groups started sprouting up. The first books about the probelem were published around the same time. And the first research was done early to mid 80's. The shame involved in the issue of sexual abuse quieted the victims and the families. No one knew how to deal with it including the professionals. So it isn't surprising the JWs didn't know back then.

    In spite of my disdain for the WTS, when I saw the thing on Dateline, I immediately dismissed it as hype of a few isolated instances. However, as I've been doing more research, I see more and more info on this. Most of what I see is on the POLICY, and how the POLICY can, through it's implementation, protect child molesters. I agree that the policy is very poor and immediate changes should be made and enforced.

    Yes a lot has been written on the policy because the policy allows the perpetrators to remain free in the congregation and no one knows they are there and need to protect their children. it is an abuse waiting to happen and the abusers know it. Plus it does nothing to get help for the victims or their families.

    What I don't see is overwhelming proof that molestation has occurred in any more frequency than in any other aspect of life or organization. In Bill Bowen's resignation letter as an elder, he writes that this policy will (not could) subject one in three witness children to molestation. Where is the documented proof of that?

    In claiming one in three potential victims Bill is not claiming the JWs have more than any other group or the population at large. The research shows that 6/10 girls and almost as many boys are sexually abused in some way before they are 18 yrs old. That is US research done in 1985 byt Diana Russel and most recent studies show fairly similar results. Documentation on child sexual abuse rates can be found on almost any web site that deals with chils sexual abuse (check any family violence prevention program)

    Again, most of the news articles and things relate to how the POLICY is in error and can protect pedophiles, but claim that molestation is rampant without offering any actual proof. I realize that there are children w/in the WTS that are molested, but that can be said everywhere (unfortunately). But to say that a third of witness kids have been or will be molested seems a little off-base to me. Further, I think that by classifying it as an 'organization of pedophiles' or calling them the 'pedophile at your door' is irresponsible and does a disservice to the many, many decent JW's who are sincere (even if they are extremely deluded) and find child molestation as abhorrent as do all normal people.

    Consider that IF the JWs have a rate of abuse that equals the general population then Bill Bowen's claim is not exxagerated at all. But the danger here is the silence. A pedophile knows that once he has been reported to the elders and they don't have the required 2 witnesses he is free and clear. The elders will not make any announcement of his danger to children in the cong. Even if they tell him he can't go door to door what stops him? What stops him from showing up at the service meeting and being the olny male there takes the lead? After all if he is the only male the sisters will expect him to take the lead. And because no one knows he could so easily assign himself to go to doors alone or with a child. He could alos offer to befriend a young one in the cong and since single parents would not know his "status" (if in fact he was ever given one) they they think "How nice" He has an open environemnt to continue to find new victims and no one knows.

    I guess what I'm asking for is someone to point me in the right direction towards the proof that this is happening on the scale purported. Now, before anyone gets on their high horse and starts telling me I just don't understand, let me share that I was molested by a non-JW relative, so if anyone understands anything about this topic, it's me. I know what it can and does do to people and how it has affected me my entire life. Even one molested child anywhere in the world is one too many, and I personally support the death penalty for serial abusers. In fact, I'd carry it out myself w/ no remorse. I'm just looking for answers, so anyone that can give them to me I would greatly appreciate.
    Since you have "been there" you know the secrecy involved even in non-JW families where this happens. Families are more likely to report a non-family member or close friend than they are to report a stranger. People seem to think that if they don't talk about it they can pretend it never happened or it didn't really affect the child. We know better. And the silence made it worse.
  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee
    The Canadian Incidence Study of Reported Child Abuse and Neglect (CIS) studied investigations by child welfare service providers in 1998. As its title suggests, this study deals only with child abuse and neglect reported to child welfare authorities. Some reports of sexual abuse are investigated by police without any involvement of child welfare service providers, and these statistics are not reflected in the study. Among substantiated cases of sexual abuse against children under the age of 16 reported in the CIS, 69% of the victims were girls and 31% were boys. 6

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hppb/familyviolence/html/nfntsxagrsexadult_e.html

    National Clearinghouse on Family Violence Publication


    Canadian and US stats are very similar. The above refers to reported cases and most are NOT reported. I do believe the incidence for males is higher than that cited above in some studies but can't find them at the moment

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    My church now has a progressive policy to provide abuse detection and appropriate/inappropriate behavior for ALL child workers. These workers also have to undergo a screening process, and undergo a police check. Our instructor pointed out (duh!) that predators KNOW that churches are trusting places, and so target such institutions.

    My bet is that the statistics within the WTBTS are very similar to the population at large. What makes the situation so much worse is that they are sweeping the issue under the carpet, pretending the problem does not exist, blaming the victim, and generally providing a haven for abusers.

    From what I can see, children in the WTBTS have a huge burden to conform. The teens seem to either rebel or cave to the pressure. How many of them could speak up if they were abused by someone in authority over them?

  • avishai
    avishai

    It's not that it happens more on average. But if a molester is covered up for instead of putting him in prison, he just keeps going. After the elders did'nt report my bro's abuser, he went on to molest dozens more kids. Your cong. was an anomaly. Trust me.

    Here is my bro's case http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/38146/1.ashx

    and the followup article http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/46670/1.ashx

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