by UnDisfellowshipped 774 Replies latest watchtower bible
I wanna know is why He came a looking for them when they were obviously busy in the bushes. I know it's usually DDog that askes these kind of penetrating questions
Your right LT.....why WAS he bothering them at that delicate moment? I'm thinkin ol' Adam came out of the bushes with a big ol' woody and that's hows come Jehovah made him a loin covering out of an anteaters nose.
Gumby
LT
LT wrote: In the beginning he didn't need to obtain it at all, as he was performing 100% righteous acts.DD wrote: Pure speculation! Prove me wrong - name an unrighteous act...
I already have, but I'll name a few more.
Gen 3:3 but of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die. Gen 3:4 And the serpent said to the woman, Dying you shall not die, Gen 3:5 for God knows that in the day you eat of it, even your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as God, knowing good and evil. Gen 3:6 And the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and the tree was desirable to make one wise. And she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.1) Verse 3 Did God tell them not to touch it?
2) Verse 4 It looks to me that Eve agrees with the serpent, that God was lying, putting her faith in the serpent, not in God, calling God a liar.
3) Verse 6 That looks like lusting for food, pleasure, wisdom.
4) Why was Adam not protecting his wife from the serpent and his lies? Would that not be the righteous thing to do?
5) Adam put more faith in Eve than God, trusting her judgment regarding the fruit.
Judging by their attitude, I think there was trouble long before they ate the fruit.
There is no neutral word for righteousness...
What is wrong with "Innocent"?
It would follow that the first law would show up sin, and so it did.
Do we agree this passage includes apple eating?
1Timothy 1:9
knowing this, that Law is not laid down for a righteous one, but for lawless and undisciplined ones, for ungodly and sinful ones, for unholy and profane ones, for slayers of fathers and slayers of mothers, for murderers, 10 for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and if any other thing opposes sound doctrine,I'm sorry to disappoint you, my friend. Neither you, I or EW could have done a better job than Adam. It was foreordained... Yet he did it, and he bears the responsibility and title for that action.
I'm not disappointed, because I know Adam perfectly represents the whole human race (including myself), right down to the human nature. But, as I read your post, you seem to be making the case that Adam was different and had a different nature, he was righteous or morally perfect (something we can never be this side of glory). The law he had was different or had a different purpose in that it wasn't "Mosaic". How (in your opinion) could this special man be worthy to impute sin to the whole race?
I'm still of the opinion that man wasn't created sinful,
Nor am I. He had not sinned until he broke the law, he became sinful when he broke the law. But, I do believe he had a sinful nature (innocent as he was) which drove him to sin or become sinful.
Other wise the statement "it was very good" would be a misnomer.
What if "it was very good" means that it was exactly what God wanted (innocent Adam in the garden)?
If he could live the whole law why would Adam need sanctification when he didn't sin?I guess you believe that the Holy Spirit wouldn't do His job.You know fine well that I'm not saying that.
There is such a thing as progressive sanctification, though.
I get to cut my teeth on this kinda stuff every Wednesday evening in live debate in fellowships.Wish I could come.
D Dog
Why didn't God create Adam and Eve simultaneously? Why did he create Adam where Adam was capable of becoming lonely? God was certainly not very good at seeing the big picture, was he?
Brad
Why didn't God create Adam and Eve simultaneously? Why did he create Adam where Adam was capable of becoming lonely? God was certainly not very good at seeing the big picture, was he?Brad
Good question Brad. The bible says that god "saw" that man was lonely and so he made him a "helper," a "compliment." I guess god didn't see that one coming and he learned something, that being that men like women.
God gave this man testicles, sperm,a penis, and sexual desire when he made him, and yet "god saw man was lonely" and that's why he made him a woman. Poor ol' Adam was prolly one horny sucker till Jehovah gave him a sweetie.
Gumby
Gumby
DD:
LT wrote: Prove me wrong - name an unrighteous act...
DD wrote: I already have, but I'll name a few more.
But those aren't examples of Adam. As the story goes he makes his choice once he's presented with the fruit.
1) Verse 3 Did God tell them not to touch it?
That was Eve's line, but there's no direct record of God saying that, in the account.
2) Verse 4 It looks to me that Eve agrees with the serpent, that God was lying, putting her faith in the serpent, not in God, calling God a liar.
I don't know if I'd go that far, but she certainly tested those waters to see if He was lying.
3) Verse 6 That looks like lusting for food, pleasure, wisdom.
Aye, it seems that the temptation turned into lust, which in turn gave birth to sin in the eating.
4) Why was Adam not protecting his wife from the serpent and his lies? Would that not be the righteous thing to do?
I suspect he may have. I wonder whether Eve stated the command she received from her husband, but attributed it to God. The command to not even touch the tree would seem to be an expansion on the original.
5) Adam put more faith in Eve than God, trusting her judgment regarding the fruit.
I don't read the account that way. He makes the excuse that she offered it him, but that argument is knocked flat. Paul also elaborates on the subject when writing to Timothy. IMHO Adam made a judgement call.
When you were a JW, did you ever wonder what would happen if you went rock-climbing in the new system and fell to your death?
Judging by their attitude, I think there was trouble long before they ate the fruit.
Both of them, or specifically Eve?
LT wrote:There is no neutral word for righteousness...
DD wrote: What is wrong with "Innocent"?
Does "innocent" describe a state or a standard of actions?
Do we agree this passage includes apple eating?
No, that's not really the intent of the passage at all.
Further, was it really an apple?
I'm not disappointed, because I know Adam perfectly represents the whole human race (including myself), right down to the human nature.I disagree. The consequences of his actions became incumbent on the whole human race, but I state again that I see little comparison between Adam in a state of innocence, and us in a fallen state (totally depraved).
How (in your opinion) could this special man be worthy to impute sin to the whole race?That's a simply matter of progeny
But, I do believe he had a sinful nature (innocent as he was) which drove him to sin or become sinful.I don't understand how you come to that conclusion without avoiding dichotomy. Can you elaborate?
What if "it was very good" means that it was exactly what God wanted (innocent Adam in the garden)?That would be "perfect", not good. I certainly agree that he was that, too.
If he could live the whole law why would Adam need sanctification when he didn't sin?He didn't but he was certainly growing in understanding.
LT wrote: I get to cut my teeth on this kinda stuff every Wednesday evening in live debate in fellowships. DD wrote: Wish I could come.You'd love it, for sure
LT; does observing the law impart righteousness?Definitely not, especially in our own case, and in regards to the Mosaic law which Paul speaks of.
Why was there Law in the garden, what was the purpose?
EW:How is it possible to display righteousness if there is no alternative?
What was the benefit of law in connection with Christ?
Quit shunnung me you bastards.
Why did Adam have all the goodies and desires for reproducing, yet god made it sound as though he made Eve cuz Adam was lonely.......like that was a new thought to god?
Gumby
like that was a new thought to god?
Now then Grumbles, stop putting words in God's mouth! Where does it say that this was a new thought to God?
Cheers, Ozzie (accuracy in reporting class)
Gumby:
I could tell ya what his peepee was for, but then you'd only play with it and it'd drop off and you'd go blind and then not be able to post here and and and, and then I'd miss yer posts n be all sad n stuff ~sniff~
~wipes nose with back of sleeve, bringing fresh meaning to the song "Greensleeves"~
