Freedom to Choose God (page 58)

ozziepost

do you believe people have the freedom to choose God?

What are you saying, LT - back on topic??

LittleToe

Ozzie:It'd make a change for me, huh?
LOL

gumby

Seems like there are more people who bash those who choose to believe in god.....than there are those who bash people who want to smoke.

Is it because people who smoke do not ever become judgemental of others for not following their lifestyle, whearas many 'radical' christians in deed DO condemn those who do not follow their belief? Prolly.

Gumby

ozziepost

Gumby:

Seems like there are more people who bash those who choose to believe in god.....than there are those who bash people who want to smoke.

We-e-e-e-ll, it's like this.................................no, I'd better not!!

Really though Christians follow a suffering servant and they never expected anything better, despite the prosperity theology that's popular today.

Jesus promised his followers that they would be persecuted - all of the apostles met violent ends- so a christian can expect a hard road for his/her faith.

As far as being judgmental, well, that's the trouble with labels, you can lump everyone together under one label, and assume that all are guilty. It really isn't that way at all.

Being in unity doesn't mean being unified. That's the false message the WTS puts out, that they must be the true christians because they're "the only ones" who are in unity whereas in fact what they mean is they're unified and that's quite different.

Cheers, Ozzie

ellderwho

When I say that God permits something I don't mean that He has no control. There's no stage of the game where He can't do something, yet he allows events to occur (is "allow" a better word??), with His hand hovering over them.

Did this reasoning apply to Luciferr?

I don't have to, but I do agree that that's the way the story goes

This is my point, why was that tree there, with its "good and evil" And where did that evil come from?

This is where "everything that was made" comes in. All powers and principalities has to be inclusive of every force known to us, if not we create a much bigger problem. That is Satan can continue to thwart Gods plans, and so on....
You'll excuse me, I hope, if I express my humble opinion that you are taking a very narrow view if you think the theological construct you present is the only way to surmount that problem.

Certainly you have a idea of what the powers and principalities is reffering to?

You already know that I don't believe God created the "evil" that you are refering to

Then what kind of evil do you mean?

How do define grace?

I kinda like the Jw term, dare I say "undeserved kindness"

gumby

Jesus promised his followers that they would be persecuted - all of the apostles met violent ends- so a christian can expect a hard road for his/her faith.

Ozzmeister.....me thinks the "reasons" the early christians were persecuted and killed, cannot be cpmpared to christians being bashed and mocked by non-believers in this modern age. The reason are different in todays enlightened world. Many today talk down religion, because they cannot put stock in a diety, the bible, or any other holy book.

I guess what I am saying is ....I don't know if jesus had in mind the "reasons" they would be persecuted in modern times would be because people 'would doubt he existed and would persecute those who believe he did indeed exist and was the savior. I could be wrong....I have been before I'm pretty sure.

Gumby

As far as being judgmental, well, that's the trouble with labels, you can lump everyone together under one label, and assume that all are guilty. It really isn't that way at all.

ozziepost

Oops.....oops....I made a mistake! When I said "unified" I meant to say "uniform"!!

The WTS teach that Jehovah only deals wth "true followers" through an organisation and these followers must be united when what they really mean is uniform.

ozziepost

So, Gumbles, we are "enlightened", are we? Hmmmmmm........

As for persecution, Christians now are enduring more persecution than at any time in their history. Some of this is from the secular world but much is from the followers of other faiths.

You might like to do a search on "the persecuted church".

gumby

So, Gumbles, we are "enlightened", are we?

I knew I should have used a different term

What I mean is....there has been a departure from old fashion christian values/living in todays modern world because of much doubt cast on the bible with more and more authors and people speaking out against it. Maybe enlightened was the wrong word.

I still do not see the persecution you speak of ...at least in my town. Christians are no more persecuted than the dubs claimed they were/would be. People freely drive to their comfy churches in a car, sit in a air controlled building, then freely drive home. Where is the persecution?

I also would like to know what the REASON was, that jesus said his followers would be persecuted.

Gumby

ozziepost

Where is the persecution?

Oh Glumly, when will you Americans learn that the USA is a small part of the earth's surface!! Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there! It's hard to see it in Oz too but certainly in many other parts of the world you will see it. Try travelling! Like SE Asia for example, the Moslem countries...no, I'm not going to make it easy for you - you can do theresearch. Go on, get out your search engines!!

Freedom to Choose God

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