Freedom to Choose God (page 55)

LittleToe

EW:
I was asked something specific, and so I ran with it
I've already stated that I've not had chance to study that verse properly yet and IMHO it's the only one that supports your view.
You'll recall that my original contention was that God did not create evil, and potentially not darkness, either.
To that end, my comments reflect that stance.

ellderwho

To that end, my comments reflect that stance.

Very well. With all things considered Im interested in your position on what God created specifically?

Because scripture(Isa.45:7) clearly states what it states. (with no interpetive values required)

E.

Deputy Dog

LT

Regarding "what came first", the argument is surely as moot as "when did the Son become such?". God is eternal, there being nothing before or after (because there is no before or after). Hence you're setting up a false dichotomy of black and white thinking, i.e. since nothing was before God, then darkness must have come afterwards. Personally I find such arguments extreme.

So help me understand. Are you saying that evil or darkness are as eternal as God? Or are evil & darkness not created things? My personal view is simple, God created sin or evil (darkness), simply by defining it as something that he does not like man to do. Why do we seem to get so bogged down with this concept? Of coarse He created sin in this way, not only does he have every right, it's His way of telling us how to love Him, and to give us insight into His personality. I'm having a problem understanding how and why people think, that by God creating sin, through defining sin, that He is somehow sinning against Himself. This makes no sense to me. I do understand why some may struggle with why or how God uses sin in his plan. But, for me it is simple, It is His way of showing mercy too some and a way of showing His justice to others. Without sin it would be impossible. D Dog

LittleToe

EW:
Scripture is ALWAYS open to interpretation, my friend, not least when questioning the underlying language and translation.

DDog:
I believe I understand the concept that you're grappling with, but I believe there must be cleaner ways of expressing it than declaring God to be the author of sin. I'm sorry, but that one just doesn't sit comfortably with me, either theologically, scripturally or "in the Spirit".

I'm not aware of many to whom it is...

ellderwho

EW:Scripture is ALWAYS open to interpretation, my friend, not least when questioning the underlying language and translation.

Agreed, however I believe the scripture quoted seems to have become problematic for you. E.

Deputy Dog

LT You're the one that is grappling, I simply believe what the scripture plainly says. I understand, we had a president that didn't know what the word "is" means. For you it's the word "everything" or "all things" John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. How much clearer can it be?

Strongs

All things G3956

πᾶς

pas

Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

I believe there must be cleaner ways of expressing it than declaring God to be the author of sin.

How would you like to "express" it? I think Isaiah 45:7 and John 1:3 do a fine job! If God isn't worried about it, why should you be? He's a BIG GOD, He can take the heat

I'm sorry, but that one just doesn't sit comfortably with me, either theologically, scripturally or "in the Spirit".

There are many things that don't "sit well" with me, and if I were writing the bible (thank God I'm not), I would not have put them in. But, they are there, and I must live with them. D Dog

gumby

You guys are trying to pull something out of a hat that isn't in there; eg.) sin, darkness.

Lets travel back through time to the point before God created anything whatsoever. Imagine you could be there and you opened your eyes. What would you see? Light.....darkness....emptiness? Who created the "void" you see? Who created what is surrounding you?

To think god supplied the exact scenario in the bible of the situation that existed BEFORE he created anything, and to think god put all that info into Moses head before he recorded it is silly. Every quote coming from god in the bible doesn't need a biblical explanation behind it unless your a fanatic literalist.

Gumby

Deputy Dog

Gumby

Just because you can't see sin, doesn't mean God didn't create it.

D Dog

gumby

Gumby
Just because you can't see sin, doesn't mean God didn't create it.

I'm not saying he did or did not.......but since it isn't clearly spelled out in the bible and is open to doubt......why try to put a label on the idea one way or the other and insist on that conclusion?

Gumby

Deputy Dog

Gumby

but since it isn't clearly spelled out in the bible and is open to doubt

I think it is pretty clear

why try to put a label on the idea one way or the other and insist on that conclusion?

I think that is the issue for this whole thread "Freedom to Choose God". Freedom belongs to God to create what ever He likes, to bless whomever He likes or simply do as He chooses.

Some people seem to think of God as their on personal genie that does what ever the person asks. I know LT, EW don't believe this, But I guess the real question gets back to Freedom. Does God have the freedom to create sin?

D Dog

Freedom to Choose God

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