The TRUTH for dummies. Chapter 1

by beaker 43 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Undaunted Danny

  The Christian cross/stake. Which was it? Which device was Jesus impaled on?Was it an upright single stake or was it the traditional cross with a horizontal crossbeam? Does it really matter?

  The Watchtower's insistence on the single stake.Finds it's origin in the transliteration of the NT. Greek word stauros, which does ring like stake doesn't it?The WT$ also contends further, that the pagan Romans would not have 'wasted' a second piece of scarce wood on a condemned criminal.The WT$ also cites the 'pagan cross icon' as preceding Christianity by centuries. Granted, but here's the kicker. The upright stake(sacred pole) is also a pagan phallic,symbol.Furthermore,it is abundantly clear from historical accounts that the Romans impaled their victims on crosses.

  The Jehovah's Witnesses will still.....
  
  GROW OLD AND DIE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.
  
  The only variable here is; will you also die broken and unsaved?

  [Notice; All Jehovah's Witnesses who have died,are all Still Dead
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  peacefulpete

  For information sake a number of deities (notably solar deities) of the of the Roman and Greek mythologies died at the base of or on a tree or solar cross. This no doubt contributed to the Pauline Christ crucifixion motif. The Gospel writers historized this celestrial symbolism by melding the tale with the fate of Jewish zealots executed by Rome by crucifixion. Other details in the Jesus story in the Gospels (unknown and undreampt of by Paul) betray the Zealot movement's contributions (apostles are named as "zealots" and display militant attitude, Jesus is said to have stormed the Temple and held off the Roman and Jewish guard for days. Other elements appear to have been drawn from Cynic sages. Other details are transparent solar elements (dead three days, shinning like the sun etc.).
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  XQsThaiPoes

  The WTBTS teaches that the great crowd will not be destroyed during the end of the world so the bennefit for them is everlasting life where as the 144k are depicted in revelations as having been murdered prior to the end . I

  First there will be a judging by Jesus on how the anointed were treated at armegedon that is the only thing the mortal world will be judged for at the big A. Second There will be a testing for everyone that died by Satan in the end of the 1k years. They are everyone that survives the wrath of Jesus. I know it may sound weird but the "new" watchtower docterine is full of holes when you compare the behavior of JWs with the implactions of the docterine .The great crowd gets nothing they are just the people left alive after the big A and the ones ressurected, and are not exclusively JW.
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  heathen

  XQ--- From what I remember the belief is that they will survive , I mean doesn't that seem like it might be worth it ? I know most people would not want to suffer and die At the same time they claim to have a spiritual paradise of which I never seemed to notice the fruits of the spirit in my short experience with them . They do boast about themselves in ways they come up short but anyway for the sake of argument I think the great crowd has an opportunity according to the bible of being a very special group that is privileged , rev 7:9-17 . They sure sound happy to me .
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  Farkel

  : Please give me some thoughts on chapter 1 which will be titled "Did Jesus die on a cross or a stake?"

  Neither. He married Mary Magdalene, had three bratty kids and opened up a used car lot in Galilee.

  Farkel
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  Corvin

  Corwin spouted the jw line fed to them by the tower for years. The rank and file actually believe this to be true. The g.b. knows better. The cross is the symbol of "it is finished". For christians, it symbolizes hope and the resurrection. It is also not 'venerated". It is simply a symbol.

  Venerate: to regard or treat with reverence; revere.

  Revere: to regard with respect and a tinge of awe.

  Um yeah, it is not just JW speak, the cross is venerated. And whether Jesus died on a cross or a stake with no crossmember, even the WT has a correct view on some things. You don't see the JW's wearing the "stake" that Jesus died on around their necks. Perhaps they (the WTBTS) are misleading about the stake thing, however, why would Christians take on a pagan symbol in their worship of God? You might agree the cross did not originate with the Christians.

  I don't know about the WT governing body, but wearing the historical symbol for the human penis around your neck to identify you as a Christian is just as gay as those stupid "YHWH" tie pins that were suppose to identify you as a JW. Wearing one no more makes you a Christian than wearing stockings and a garter makes you a woman.

  Corvin
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  Lady Lee

  Anonymous Reader says

  Whatever you choose to put into the brochure, the 'Catholic Answer to Jehovah's Witnesses' is well worth reading. It taught me a LOT about JWs (and I've been reading here for probably longer than two years). It also taught me an awful lot about Catholicism that, as a JW child, I never, ever learned.
  
  If you care to, you can check out the author's website at maryheartcrusaders.com
  
  She long ago made it her personal mission to embrace the issue of 'cults' who seek to wreak their damage on her fellow Catholics and others who desire to worship God or to live as a Christian or to follow the Bible.
  
  Whether you agree with her as a Catholic or not is not something I would attempt to comment on one way or another (as a JW, I've made quite enough attempts to persuade people about religion already, thank you).
  
  But, in my opinion, her book is very well worth reading.
  
  I have heard rumors for a very long time that the JW religion was founded with the intention to 'destroy religion'.
  
  It never says this, but reading this book made me wonder if perhaps it was not with the more specific intention to destroy Catholicism, or at least, Christianity.
  
  In any case, it's worth taking a look at it.

  For YOU to look at, that is. I'm not commenting one way or the other about whether or not it should be in the brochure tho I would probably agree with the poster who said it should probably not as it would put people off.

  and

  I didn't see D'Angelo's book as being written necessarily for JWs. (They would throw it out as 'apostate' just by virtue of the title).
  
  I think when it was written, it was with the hope of stopping people who showed an interest in them before they ever got involved.
  
  In any event, as an ex-jw kid, I found it shockingly enlightening. Many things I had personally never realized before. Like a very, very long list of contradictions in their basic, fundamental teachings.
  
  And many, many examples of how they've misused scriptures and claimed the Bible 'clearly shows' one thing when a deeper understanding and familiarity with the Bible shows it many times shows just the opposite.
  
  (It gets pretty comical when you start looking at all the absurd and contradictory things they teach about what has happened and what's going to happen with all the 'evil people' and the Devil and his angels, from the Garden of Eden, through the gospel, to 1914, at Armageddon and after Armageddon.)
  
  The book reawakens the thinking part of your brain.
  
  
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  heathen

  I think what's even more absurd is the belief that in order to pray one must cross his chest like catholics do . The symbol of the cross was around long before christianity and was used in pagan belief systems such as the egyptian ankh to symbolize eternal life , the tao worshippers used it heck even the nazzies used it . I've read some stuff that said hitler used the swastika because he realized the cross was venerated ( my websters says it is indeed a greek cross). One of the 10 commandments instructed the ancient israelites not to make for themselves any form of graven image and that is what I think the cross is .
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  Bulldog

  For me, doctrinal issues would have meant squat to me,

  I started to feel disturbed after reading about cults and mind control, and Orwells 1984 (all non apostate sources) and it bothered me that the Society would use these teqniques I started to realize that Jehovah would NOT use this way to spread the "truth". Truth should stand up on its own, not by mind control.

  So while some may be disturbed by doctrinal issues, false prophecies, usually there has to be some other doubt first, such as abuse, mistreatment, injustice or some other trigger to snap the mind out of the mind control thinking, and open it to factual information about the WTBTS. Otherwise they are blinded by the extreme thought training.

  I have not suffered mistreatment or abuse by the JWs and for the most part it was a "positive" experience, so it wasn't til I started to open my mind to comparisons to other cults that the bells started ringing, but it took years for it to come full circle, I even went to Bethel with doubts, which were confirmed for me by the fact that you canNOT leave in a honorable way if you decide after you fulfill your year obligation, that Bethel is not for you. You WILL have a "black" (their word) letter sent to your congregation unless you have a REALLY good reason for leaving.

  I would use non threatening sources, like cult info sites. talking to ex members of other cults about their experiences, and letting the person you are trying to help DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS. Ask questions that are kind and loving, mirroring the JWs own methods of speaking, don't be negative at all and NEVER slag the borg until they are there too.
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  little witch

  Corvin,

  I will say it again, the cross is not generally venerated, but the meaning behind it is. I have a tattoo of a cross with MOTHER written on it for example. I did it as a spiritual and personal emblem to signify my hope that mom is in heaven with the Lord and that I will see her again. My faith is not in the cross as an idol of any sort, it is just a representation of my faith.

  BTW, after re-reading my last post, I see that I used the word "spouted". That was a bad choice of words and I am sorry I used it.