The TRUTH for dummies. Chapter 1

by beaker 43 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • beaker
    beaker

    Being only newly freed from the WTS, there are many people who were my friends that i would like to be able to explain the TRUTH about many of the points raised on this board. So i have decided to compile a publication that i can mail to them with short succinct, hardhitting reasoning on areas where the WTS is misleading them and also areas where they are saying one thing but practising another. I would like to be able to limit the explanations to one topic per page with the hope that if there is not too much too read they may just bother to read it.

    I have read some brilliant explanations in the posts on this board, so i am asking for a little help. Bible quotations are good and so are pictures.

    Please give me some thoughts on chapter 1 which will be titled "Did Jesus die on a cross or a stake?"

    Thanks

    Beaker

  • blondie
    blondie

    Hi Beaker. After Elmo, Beavker is my favorite.

    As an active JW, I did not see the point cross/stake. Until 1936, a cross appeared on the cover of the WT. The WTS teaches that Jesus came in 1919 and found only the WTS teaching the truth about the Bible and so the WTS were the only acceptable religion. Yet the WTS was using the cross prominently. That means that Jesus did not find the use of the cross unacceptable based on the WTS teachings.

    Am I to believe that it took 17 years for God to reveal that the cross was not Christian?

    Blondie

  • beaker
    beaker

    thanks blondie

    my 7 year old boy loves elmo

    beaker

  • Markfromcali
    Markfromcali

    Beaker, that could be a big undertaking if you take into account the psychological impact it has on people, which will be different and actually go deeper than psychology in some cases. It's not that complicated to point out the errors in JW teachings, but what will happen to each person as they take that in gets pretty hairy and complicated. For the truly devout, if you really succeed you are in effect killing them, because to someone who identifies with that mindset destroying it is like destroying who they are. It may be good for someone who have decided (and therefore already have a clue) to question everything, but it's always good to have a living person there to feel things out.

  • boa
    boa

    beaker....do you have Crisis of Concience and In Search of Christian Freedom by Raymond Franz?

    I think your goal of a fairly brief compendium of reasons to seriously question jw beliefs is a good one and these two books have many many chapters that could be rendered down to a page or so that gets the point across why many of the particular unique teachings of jws are wrong......

    boa

  • Agent 1 of 1
    Agent 1 of 1

    Good luck, beaker. To help you with the cross/stake subject, here's a scripture. Unfortunately, I was not the one that found this out, someone else helped me find it. Hehe. John 20:25. Here, doubting Thomas states that he will not believe the Lord is alive unless he sees proof. He says,"Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails..." Here it is saying that there were more than one nail used to impale Jesus' hands. The WTS teaches that he was on a stake, yet that would only allow one nail. Interesting. :P

  • justhuman
    justhuman

    The point about the cross is:

    A. At the gospels we read that the Romans put a sign over the head of Jesus. So the hands of the Lord were at T position, in order to have the sign above the head, NOT an I possition as the W.T teaches. By the way the GB don't have someone who knows Greek there!!!

    B.Also saint Paul said that Cross was an honor and salvation to the Christians and was a subject of hate to the Jews.

    I will quote the scriptures another time

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    This was a subject I researched exhaustively years ago.

    1) The Romans did crucify prisoners and slaves in the first century with a two-beamed cross and the words crux and stauros did denote such an execution instrument (cf. Plautus, Lucian, Artemidorus, Seneca, Tacitus). The Society's repeated claim that Livy used crux to only denote impalement is without merit; Livy never gave any indication of the shape of the crosses he mentioned. The claim that Lucian used anastaroo to denote impalement in his play on Prometheus is also contradicted by the evidence. By claiming that crux and stauros did not mean "cross" until the third century, the Society is intentionally distorting and hiding the facts.

    2) The Gospel accounts assume a two-beamed cross, especially in the motif of Jesus or Simon of Cyrene carrying the cross on the way to Golgotha (cf. John 19:17) which is nothing other than the widely-attested practice of patibulum-bearing (the patibulum was the crossbeam). This practice pre-existed the invention of crucifixion as a method to torture disobediant slaves (cf. Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Plutarch) and was widely adopted as a prelude to crucifixion (cf. Plautus, Plutarch, Artemidorus, Chariton). The Society would instead require Jesus or Simon to carry a pole to Golgotha (actually pictured in the Greatest Man Who Ever Lived book (1991, chapter 124), which is utterly without any historical support and ignores the copious evidence of patibulum-bearing. John 19:17 and the synoptic tradition of Simon of Cyrene are fatal to the Society's crux simplex theory. The traditional Christian picture of Jesus carrying the whole cross over one of his shoulders (seen in the Passion of the Christ movie) is also unhistorical....what the Romans apparently did was have the prisoner stretch out his hands, nail or tie the hands to the crossbeam, and then having him bear the beam over his back or chest throughout the city to the stationary stipes (vertical beam), and then hoist him up to the cross. This practice is also alluded to in John 21:18-19 which also assumes a two-beamed cross. Details in John 20:25 and Matthew 27:37 are also best explained by assuming a two-beamed cross.

    3) The use of the word xylon "tree, wood" in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29, Galatians 3:13, and 1 Peter 2:24 does not indicate the kind of stauros Jesus died on, only that the Bible writers understood Roman crucifixion in terms of the law in Deuteronomy 21:23-23. Other Jewish writers referred to Roman crucifixion in the same manner (including the Dead Sea Scrolls, Philo, Josephus), and Roman writers also referred to Roman crosses metaphorically as "trees" (cf. Seneca).

    4) There was a strong tradition in late first century and second century Christianity (cf. Barnabas, Justin Martyr, Odes of Solomon, Irenaeus, etc.) that repeatedly looked for prophecies and prefigurings of the two-beamed cross of Jesus in the OT, and described the stretching out of the hands from side to side as a sign of Jesus' cross.

  • beaker
    beaker

    thank you everyone.

    you've given me plenty to work with

    beaker

  • Corvin
    Corvin

    Just to add regarding the cross: While it is a good thing to clearly indicate whether or not the WTBTS has it right about the cross vs stake, I have never understood in either case why the instrument of Jesus' death would be significant, or why "Christians" feel they need to venerate the instrument of Jesus' death.

    If Jesus had've died in the electric chair, I suppose "Christians" would be wearing a scale replica one of those around their necks instead.

    Corvin

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