by gumby 297 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Gumby, I asked exactly this question of the Society back in 1991 in a 30-page letter detailing all of my reasoning, which parallels yours. They wrote back, but ignored all of my main points, simply saying, "we disagree with your reasoning" but not explaining why. They closed by citing a WT article that said, "don't ask unprofitable questions." If you're interested, the main points of my letter can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/ransom.htm
AlanF
I believe that the "tree of life" contained the unique ingredients that Adam & Eve needed in order to sustain their lives forever. I also believe that they were at least periodically eating from this tree, for the reason that the other tree was the only one of the two that was off-grounds for them. It was only AFTER they disobeyed that they were prevented from eating of the tree of life any longer. Had they not disobeyed it appears that they would have continued to live for as long as they replenished the needs of their bodies by consuming the essential ingredients that could be found in the tree of life alone.
No question about it, they had permission to eat of the tree of life.
The fruit from the tree of life really had life-sustaining ingredients.
The fruit from the "other" tree was simply good for food, just plain ole food, and to eat from it was to disobey God and merit not being worthy of eating of the tree of life any longer.
So Adam and Eve would still be alive today had they not been disallowed from eating from the tree of life.
We die for the same reason that Adam and Eve died ... because we need the ingredients from the tree of life and aren't getting them.
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Nota bene: It's "tree", not "trees" of life, in Revelation.
To my mind it's described a bit like a mangrove tree, in that it is one tree that puts down it's roots either side of the river.
Again, I think the Mystics have a clearer idea, of what this is supposed to represent, than the literalists.
What are your thoughts with regards to what I've said up above, AlanF? Do you see any flaws in my reasoning?
We die for the same reasons that Adam and Eve died. Namely, because we need the ingredients found in the tree of life, and can't have them. The reason we can't have them is because we fail to be fully righteous. We fail to be fully righteous because our fathers were unable to inculcate this quality into us by way of teaching us properly. Our fathers were unable to teach us properly because their fathers were just as incapable ... and so on all the way back to Adam. Ultimately it can all be blamed on "sin". Person's who "sin" aren't worthy of eating from the tree of life. Once we've been helped to overcome our sinfulness then we will be allowed to eat from the tree of life. That's apparently the reason for the mention of the "trees of life" in the book of Revelation. It has nothing at all to do with genes!
Schizm
IMHO we die because we die.
What did animals do to get the death sentence?
We've always lived in a high oxygen atmosphere, and all things have to fight it's corrosive effects.
Some people drink olive oil, and live to a ripe old age, but in the end "death" gets them well well before their 200th birthday.
If these appologists for god, ever wised up and took a reality check, they would have to admit that the whole 'god' (bible) thing is just as much a wide, yapping cunundrum, as life and death!!!! Simply stated nobody knows for sure, so lets sound like we know what the hell we are talking about............ie A Paduan above........
I'm neither apologising nor defending. (and it sounds to you like I know what I'm talking about?)
something changed in him to cause him to die. What was it exactly? A disease? A defect? Name the defect if you can or know.
There's the question - I gave my answer.
A half-critical look at the story could tell you that he didn't trust his God now. They weren't "one" anymore - Adam was Adam and the Lord was someone else to him - someone he was even scared of.
What don't you like about the answer?
Another thought for the cosmic melting pot of supposition.
Curiously I was thinking about this subject on the loo yesterday and was reading through Paul's words about his internal power struggle, in the right that he wanted to do he couldn't do etc because there was another force within him fighting against his core righteousness.
It lead my mind back to the garden of Eden and the possibility that when the death sentence was passed, the inherent state of dying creates within the dying organism a profound selfish desire (sin?) to create continual comfort zones for us to exist in mentally and physically - thus the battle ensues!
How the death sentence was carried out is beyond me. As Gumby quipped - probably a switch.
hmmm, interesting topic, I may have to do some reading, but first my questions...
There were two trees, one of knowledge and one of life. Was Satan's argument that if man took of the tree of knowledge, he would then pro-create and in that sense live forever? And if so, did he predict that man would find the secrets of life and the universe on their own without a need for the tree of life?
What did animals do to get the death sentence?
I'd like to understand that as well. My old cat is on her last legs and I have bonded with her, when she dies part of my life dies with her. The society say it is unnatural to get too close to animals ... maybe so, but I am what I am and feel affection towards many lifeforms that exhibit love towards me that I understand.
