How can Jesus be God since he referred to the Father as "my God"

by hooberus 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Ron Rhodes quotes Paul G. Weathers:

    Since Christ came as man, and since one of the proper duties of man is to worship, pray to, and adore [God], it was perfectly proper for Jesus to call the Father "my God" and to address him in prayer. Positionally speaking as a man, as a Jew, and as our high priest ("made like his brothers in every way," Heb. 2:17), Jesus could address the Father as "God." However, Jesus did not relate to the Father in this way until he "emptied himsel" and became man, as it says in Phil. 2:6-8 Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses p. 152

    The Bible does give an indication that Jesus addressing the Father as "my God" is due to the incarnation:

    Psalm 22

    1: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
    2: O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
    3: But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
    4: Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
    5: They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
    6: But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
    7: All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head saying,
    8: He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
    9: But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
    10: I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

    Isaiah 49

    1: Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
    2: And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
    3: And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
    4: Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.
    5: And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. 6: And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

    Unitarians admit that Jesus was a human on this earth, and thus they believe that Jesus as a man on this earth referred to the Father as "my God." What many of them fail to understand is that Trinitarians also believe that Jesus was a man while on this earth. Thus Jesus as a man referring to the Father as "my God" does not disprove the Trinity since the Trinty teaches that Jesus was (in addition to being God by nature) fully human.

    The Watchtowers main response to this is to point out that even following the resurrection Jesus used the same expression:

    "Repeatedly, even following Jesus' ascension to heaven, the Scriptures refer to the Father as "the God" of Jesus Christ. At John 20:17, following Jesus' resurrection, he himself spoke of the Father as "my God." Later, when in heaven, as recorded at Revelation 3:12, he again used the same expression." Reasoning fron the Scriptures p. 411 Watchtower Society

    The Watchtower tries to argue that Jesus' refering to the Father as his "God" , could not be due to his being human (as Trinitarians claim), because according to the Watchower in the above instances (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12 etc.) Jesus was no longer a human. However, this reasoning assumes the WT doctrine that Jesus is no longer human since his resurrection. I hope to post some more inforamation on the continuing humanity of Jesus. If it shown that Jesus is a still a human following his resurrection, then the Watchtowers argument on this point evaporates.

    Note: please try to keep posts in line with the specific subject of this thread. It is not my intention here for a lengthy Trinity battle, so please keep comments around the subject of this thead.

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Another Watchtower tactic related to the "my God" issue is the following from Should You Believe in the Trinity:

    http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/index.htm

    Then, as he neared death, Jesus cried out: "My God, my God, why have you deserted me?" (Mark 15:34, JB) To whom was Jesus crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry, "My God," was not from someone who considered himself to be God."

    This is a straw-man argument since Trinitarians do not believe that Jesus and the Father are the same person. Trinitarians do not believe that Jesus was crying out to "himself" as the Watchtower implies, but instead that the second person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ since the incarnation has (in addition to his divine nature) the nature of man (Philippians 2:6-8), and as man he prayed to, and cried out to the Father (another person, besides himself) as "my God."

  • El blanko
    El blanko

    Jesus IS NOT Almighty God according to scripture. He is defined as being God's word, the first and most intimate expression of God towards a physical creation. God defined the physical creation using Jesus Christ (his word). The word has ownership over everything that has been defined and is currently God towards this system we exist within and our main focus at this time.

    After the physical creation is restored to a state of perfection, ownership goes back directly to Almighty God. No need for the mediator.

    Simple really.

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Note: please try to keep posts in line with the specific subject of this thread. It is not my intention here for a lengthy Trinity battle, so please keep comments around the subject of this thead.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    You can try, hooberus!

    I must say that Ron Rhodes' arguments seem most persuasive on this and as you rightly note, the WTS misrepresents the issue. The tragedy is that so many of the R&F believe them!

    Cheers, Ozzie

  • irishayes
    irishayes

    This is how it has always been explained to me:

    When Jesus called the Father "my God" he was recognizing his humanity and acknowledging Him as "my God." Prior to Him coming to earth in human form, He had only a divine nature. In this divine nature, He could never refer to the Father as "my God" because Jesus was fully equal to the Father in every way. It was only after the incarnation and taking on human form, that it was proper for Him to refer to the Father as "my God."

    Also, Jesus always refers to "My Father" or "Your Father" but never "our Father." He was distinguishing the two because He is a son of God by NATURE and we are sons of God by ADOPTION.

    Can you please explain what you mean about the JW's not believing in the physical resurrection of Christ? How do they explain the passages where Christ appears and walks with the disciples, and where Thomas places his hand in the holes in Christ's hand and side?

  • herk
  • hooberus
    hooberus
    Can you please explain what you mean about the JW's not believing in the physical resurrection of Christ? How do they explain the passages where Christ appears and walks with the disciples, and where Thomas places his hand in the holes in Christ's hand and side?

    The Watchtower teaches that Jesus' body was "disposed of" (they actually use this phrase), and the Watchtower claims that Jesus was recreated as a spirit creature. The watchtower teaches that the passages where Christ appeared and walked with his disciples were merely Jesus materializing bodies for the occasions. The Society claims that the holes that Thomas placed his hands into were "wound holes" made to look like the ones that were caused by the nails (though according to Watchtower doctrine they were not really caused by the nails).

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/67305/1.ashx

  • irishayes
    irishayes

    OK, can you explain to my WHY this is their teaching? The bible doesn't say this is what happened anywhere. Is this another twisting to support their teaching? What would the reasoning be to deny that Christ had a physical resurrection?

    I'm sorry I'm getting off topic here, just trying to understand.

  • herk

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