TD --- If you read the live forever book they claim jesus was enthroned as king in 1914 . There was no 3 and a half year interegnum . The 3 and half years according to the WTBTS was a time of testing and proving for the churches of christianity and at the end of that time Jesus decided that the bible students were the chosen ones .
Another JW Questions 1914 At The Meeting!!!
by minimus 42 Replies latest jw friends
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boa
I'm afraid somehow that the wts is cleverly manipulating the information to decrease awareness and knowledge of the basic 1914 claim and especially the tie to 1918 as when they were found 'approved' by Christ out of all of Christendom. Of course, this doesn't explain that virtually nothing changed in the org for many yrs after that date like christmas, cross etc. so how could this be?
Thus, I think this will not be the thing to bring them down...perhaps nothing will do it totally...i agree people WANT to believe its the 'truth' and so there they are...going back even.
boa
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TD
----Thanks Heathen. I must be confusing the "enthronement" with the "first ressurection" and "coming to the spiritual temple."
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zugzwang
How could that brother doubt the WTS? After all they have never been wrong before: "In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved."- 1889, Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 2 p. 98-99 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A.D....and the formal inauguration of his kingly office dates from April 1878, A.D."- 1897, Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 4 p. 621 "Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of Christianity."- 1917, The Finished Mystery p. 485 "The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the 'time of the end' began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874." (WT March 1, 1922) Apparently those facts were disputable because later the same organization that presented these facts changed the dates involved. "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old...." (1920, Millions Now Living Will Never Die p. 89-90) The whole basis of the statement "millions now living will never die" (which the WTS still proudly uses) was based upon the teaching of the WTS that the end was going to occur in 1925. Notice how the writer says "we may confidently expect." Notice a similar statement in the WT January 1, 1997 p. 11: "In the early 1920?s, a featured public talk presented by Jehovah?s Witnesses was entitled 'Millions Now Living Will Never Die.' This may have reflected overoptimism at that time. But today that statement can be made with full confidence." The fact that a woefully false and inaccurate statement was made is glossed over by saying it was mearly "overoptimism." In addition, the author makes the same mistake that Rutherford made back in the 1920's. Just as in the early 1920's they were sure they could "confidently expect" something that didn't happen, so too in the 1997 article reference is made to having "full confidence." How can I, or anyone else, have "full confidence" in a statement made by an organization that made the same statement 75 years earlier that turned out to be completely wrong? Is the WTS more confident now than it was back then? How could they be, notice just how confident they were back then in this next quotation. "We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line.... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." (WT May 15, 1922) It is difficult to see how they could say that this was merely "overoptimism." There was no question, "no doubt whatever," in fact they stated that "the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal. . .beyond any possibility of erasure." They were so confident that they said it would occur "probably in the fall." How much more confident or specific could they have been? They were to have as much confidence in 1925 as in 1914. Since obviously nothing happened in 1925 what does that tell us about 1914? For the WTS to say that this was merely "overoptimism" is downright deceitful! "This chronology is not of man, but of God. Being of divine origin and divinely corroborated, present-truth chronology stands in a class by itself, absolutely and unqualifiedly correct...."- WT July 15, 1922 p. 217 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." (WT September 1, 1922 p. 262) Again, if 1925 is even more certain than 1914, and obviously nothing happened in 1925, what does that tell us about 1914? "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." (WT April 1, 1923 p. 106) "Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874." (WT January 1, 1924 p. 5) Today anyone who has doubt about the teachings of the WTS is also looked down upon just as is being encouraged here. Notice this statement was made in 1924. Even as late as 1929 the WTS still taught that Christ's return was in 1874 rather than 1914. Today if you or I taught this teaching, for which there was "not the slightest room for doubt," we would be charged with spreading apostate teachings. "Napoleon began this Egyptian campaign in 1798, finished it, and then returned to France on October 1, 1799. The campaign is briefly , yet graphically described in the prophecy, verses 40-44; and its being completed in 1799 marks, according to the prophet's own words, the beginning of "the time of the end."- 1927, Creation p. 293 "The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D. This proof is specifically set out in the booklet entitled Our Lord's Return." (1929, Prophecy p. 65, 66) Here is a statement from 1929 showing that 1874 was still held to be the date of Christ's second presence long after 1914 had passed. "... the second advent of the Lord Jesus Christ dates from about 1875."- WT October 15, 1930 p. 308 Obviously, 1914 is a certain date, just like 1925.:)
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Nathan Natas
1844, 1874, 1914 - There is no mere coincidental connection between these dates.
1844 -- William Miller, a former farmer and veteran of the War of 1812, turned to an intensive study of the Bible upon his return from the battlefield. After two years of study, he was convinced that Christ would return sometime between March 21, 1843 and March 21, 1844.
1874 -- Charles Taze Russell was born well after the "Great Dissappointment" of 1844, but the believers of Miller's end-time predictions couldn't resist picking NEW numbers for their cosmic lottery. Russell was taught that the world would end in 1874 by Nelson H. Barbour (also George Storrs), an adventist who predicted the physical return of Christ that same year. This just happens to agree with the expectation of another Millerite offshoot, the Seventh Day Adventists.
1914 -- Well, 1874 was a bit of a flop, wasn't it? Certainly there was no visible physical return of Christ. But let's not give up so easily - we can adopt and "modernize" the suggestion made by a contributor to the Second Adventist magazine Herald of the Morning, edited by Russell's mentor, N.H. Barbour; who offered a clever way out of the prophetic disappointment. The contributor, B.W. Keith, suggested that Christ had in fact returned on time in 1874, but that this return had been invisible. So let's freshen things up a bit and add a "bible based?" 40 years for "temple cleaning," then mix in the "invisble parousia" con-job, and LOOK! you get a whole new UNREFUTABLE date!!! Thanks, Judge Rutherford!
Whoopee!
here's a wonderful resource - http://www.abhota.info/end2.htm
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cypher50
I always wondered how a JW could say that God's Word the Bible is simple to understand for a true believer and then actually try to explain the 1914 prophecy with a straight face. It was like saying that if you are truly interested in Nuclear Physics then you will have no problem understanding it completely...
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drawcad_1
Minimus: I like the thought that the Lite keeps getting colder, Miller lite that is. Cypher50: this is the claim that I have heard before. ?Why would a loving god give us a manual that we could not understand?? Then they would pull weird scripture and apply 360 day years and manipulate numbers to get the ones that they want.
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exjdub
These postings are why I have an addiction to this forum. The mind-numbing and random cherry-picking of scripture that WTBS has used for years to explain Christ's presence left me feeling stupid and saying "what the...? (to myself of course) for years! When I read these posts and Farkel's Dubs For Dummies "Times" explanation I start to laugh. Thanks all!
Ex
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heathen
zugzwang--- Welcome to the board and excellent comment .With all those false statements how can they claim to have it right now? I guess it's easy to convince people that anything can happen in the invisible world . The world can even end invisibly . You are right if someone was to quote those publications today you would be accused of apostacy .
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AGuest
someone's gonna realize that the "[public] talk"... which uses the word "public" to indicate NOT that it's open for HEARING, but for SPEAKING... in the manner of the synagogues... is not "public" at all... but only an imitation of the "sermons" given by every other "church."
If it LOOKS like a DUCK...
May you all have peace.
SJ, a slave of Christ who knows that "a rose... by any other name... is still..."