All About The Trinity (page 2)

pc

WOW!! You really put alot of work into this, so let me say thank you. I read your whole post it was great. I am so thankful for people such as yourself who go out of thier way to research and give thier views of all the different topics. I too now believe the trinity, but it always helps to read more evidence of it from the bible. Again a gigantic Thank you for all your hard work! pc

herk

UnDisfellowshipped

Herk has not even attempted to respond to any of the points in my thread above, he/she simply posts cartoons claiming that the Trinity is "pagan", just as the Watchtower Society does, without backing up those claims.

Notice these quotes from http://www.LetUsReason.org :

Is the Trinity pagan? The pagan religions had what we call trinities however on closer examination they are not the same in concept or substance. In the same way we would not agree with all the other religions that have a strict monotheistic view of God to be embraced as the same God of the Bible. (Islam, Bahai) The pagan concept was encapsulated with a Father, Mother, giving birth to a Son. They were three major Gods with many minor god's as well. Their trinity was comprised of three Gods not one. The Greek triad of Zeus, Athena, and Apollo, the Hindu triad of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva the Egyptian triad of Isis, Horus, and Sub bear no resemblance to the Biblical Trinity. They were all separate not united as the one God and almost unanimously had a mother involved as in a heavenly family. This was really tritheism, which has more in common with Mormonism than a triune God. Anti Trinitarians make usage of the statues with three heads and saying that is our pagan God. If one is going to discount the Trinity because of some similarities in name only and not in substance. Then maybe they should be looking at their own pagan similarities. One can still be in idolatry, if their one God is not the God of the Bible.
Where did the pagans get a concept of three ? Why not two or four ? Where did they get the idea of a God in heaven anyway? What about their belief in a virgin and a son, where did that originate from ? Rom.1:20-25 tells us that man from the beginning knew God."... 'and their foolish hearts were darkened" vs.25 "they exchanged the truth for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the creator." When mankind fell into darkness of sin, they still retained some elements of the truth but distorted its meaning and it became lost.
As Walter Martin wrote "In order to find out if the doctrine of the Trinity is true, we do not look to see if it resembles paganism, but to the bible, to see if God teaches it in his word. Pagans also believe in the concept of God. does this mean that God must not be true? Pagans sleep. Does that mean sleeping is wrong ? We must not dismiss an idea merely because it is held in common with those whom we may not approve." (the New Cults p.49) Lets not try to find all kinds of perversions from the outside that have nothing to do with the Biblical record, lets go to the Scripture to prove our major points

ellderwho

Herks chart, The above chart is from "Thunder Ministries" and the following is a quote in part from their mission statement; " We believe the Monarchian message that Jesus is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that as God, he is omnipresent meaning he can and does manifest himself in any place, at any time. If this were not so, just look at all the people who are filled with the "SAME" Holy Spirit, all over the world. We believe the doctrine clearly upholds the monotheistic message: (Deut:6:4, Isa:43:11, Isa:44:8, Isa:45:5-6, Isa:45:21, Isa:47:10, Hosea:13:4, Jn:1:1, 1:10, 1:14, Jn:14:9, Col:2:9, 1Tm:3:16). We refute the trinity doctrine, and any other man made doctrine which is contrary to the doctrine delivered of the Apostles." Hmmm no bias here.

Kenneson

Much ado is made by some of the pagan "trinities." They forget to tell you that the first pagan monotheist was Ikhnaton (1357-1358 B.C.), who lived a century before Moses. He introduced a cult in his Egyptian royal court and city where no god was worshiped except the sun-disk Aton. They also forget to tell you that Islam also is a monotheistic religion, believing in only one god Allah. So, should Christians not believe in monotheism because some pagans do also?

Leolaia

elderwho.....Man, that's full-blown 21st-century Sabellianism and Patripassionism...very interesting!

I should also say, knowing a bit about Canaanite and Akkadian (i.e. Babylonian mythology), the so-called Babylonian trinity of Nimrod-Tammuz-Semiramis is utterly nonexistent (being an erroneous, made-up concept invented by a certain 19th-century anti-Catholic writer), and the "Backsliden Israel" trinity and the other "Babylonian" trinity are simply lumpings together of deities worshipped in Israel and Babylon -- in no sense do these represent at all a three-in-one trinity concept, nor do these form triads of a male deity, his consort, and son; in Israel Tammuz was an Akkadian import parallel partly with Dagan and partly with Baal himself, and Asherah (Ashoreth?) was the mother of Baal -- not his consort. Neither was she analogous to Babylonian Ishtar; Athtart/Astarte was. And Ishtar was the consort of Tammuz -- not his mother (Sirdu, also spelled Sidur or Durdur, was Dumuzi's mother).

In short, it's BS.

herk

LittleToe

Taking, for one moment, that your supposition were true, Herk.
What makes you think that the "demons" didn't emulate the pattern of what they saw in heaven, in their attempt to smokescreen "God"?

As Ellderwho pointed out, regarding your reference site, are you starting to turn to the "mode" thang?

link

I have a friend. He is a Batonka tribesman who finds it very difficult to read English and cannot find similar material in his own language. Consequently he did not get past the first paragraph of Undisfellowshipped's first post on this thread before he found himself completely lost and totally confused. (it took me quite a few paragraphs more to reach the same stage).

My friend does not believe the Trinity Doctrine because (like me) he cannot understand it. He would like to ask the contributors to this thread if this completely debars him from ever becoming a Christian – Born Again, JW or otherwise?

Any takers?

link

LittleToe

Link:
I was "born again" (if you want to use that term) whilst still a JW Elder, complete with all their teachings.

The only thing that had changed was a growing awareness that Jesus was more than I had been taught.
After the "epiphany" the light continued to get brighter

It's not about the quantity of knowledge inside your head, but rather a living relationship (hence, I guess, there will be a certain minimum knowledge required - which in my case was little).

All About The Trinity

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