by frankiespeakin 134 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Opinions are just that. Beliefs based on what you know of a subject as it pertains to you and your situation.
And yet it is possible to have a valid opinion about a situation without ever having directly been in that situation, which was my point. But anyway Sheila claimed she was only joking about men's opinions on the subject of abortion being invalid.
Abortion is a murder.
That's the same kind of unsupported assertion that hooberus has been making. Why is it murder?
Why is it murder? Because an innocent life is taken on purpose.
Why is it murder? Because an innocent life is taken on purpose.
So are you a vegetarian? Or even a fruitarian?
The fact that there are two different paradigms at work here is rather obvious and the reason why this debate won't be resolved for a few generations yet.
The reasons given by anti-choicers tend to mean nothing to pro-choicers.
The reasons given by pro-choicers tend to mean nothing to anti-choicers.
I'm quite happy to accept that; I do not intend to force abortions on any one. Unfortunately as 'anti-choicers' implies, there are those who would restrict the rights of others.
Obviously someone will say 'what about the babies rights'? And that just gets us into the oppostional paradigm debate again, as a first term fetus is not seen as having the same 'rights' as a new born by those who are pro-choice.
I don't get those who oppose it as 'Christians'. There is no specific law against deliberate abortion in the Bible - if we're reasonable I think we have to agree that it's probable abortion was as well known as bestiality, and they cover that one so the ommission is signficant. Likewise, the fact that, Biblically speaking, fetuses don't have souls (check what the Hebrew word for soul is).
I have yet to get any actual reply (not involving magic) from an anti-choicer explaning how 25g of tissue with 2g of brain matter (same amount of brain as a pet rat) is the same as 3000g of brain tissue with 300g of brain.
I know it's a sensitive issue; I'm pretty sure that if a 12 week-term fetus (that's the 25g above - an ounce) didn't LOOK like a tiny 2" human being, then it would be a less sensitive issue.
I do wish people wouldn't think that just repeating themselves e.g.- Yeru, hooberus - was a substitute for a proper discussion, as Funk points out.
I wish people would consider the validity of arguments carefully (abortion is not a solution to population, contraception is)
But it doesn't matter to me we don't agree; now we can disagree, and nobody gets disfellowshipped.
FUNK,
If you equate slaughtering animals for food with killing babies...this could be part of the problem.
Why is it murder? Because an innocent life is taken on purpose.So are you a vegetarian? Or even a fruitarian?
Good response funky! And quite frankly, the knee-jerk response to the above (by anti-choicers) will be: human life is more precious. Yeah, right. When I look around I'd rather take my chances with the animal kingdom than 99.9% of the humanoids stomping around on the earth.
Who says human life is more precious? Oh yeah, uh, humans! Geez, that's a good argument . Based on the evidence, it sure doesn't seem like it.
If you equate slaughtering animals for food with killing babies...this could be part of the problem.
Maybe the problem is that you equate preventing the implantation of a zygote with killing babies.
Is a fetus a human? If yes it is murder if not it ain't.
Now then back to the question I posed earlier...what makes us human? Guess no one will answer me again. I am such a lonely donkey.
The topic has been hashed out many times here before and the crux of the matter is that in our culture and time many but not all people have "moralized" the issue and compromize is seen as duplicity in a heinous crime. These ones rarely ask why other 'moral' decent people see the issue in an entirly different way. This is why no middle ground can be reached. Ultimately using loaded language like "human" and "baby" end any discussion, as everyone agrees that"humans" and "babies" have rights. Those that feel that abortion is just that, "aborting the development of a human" rather than the "killing" of a human are open to discussing a socially responsible and informed consensus. All moral issues are arrived at thru this subjective process. Those that feel that any tissue that has potential to develope into a human ought be protected by law are opening a moral and legal can of worms. Ultimately the present law recognizes the rights of sentient beings and the rights of the host (mother) to speak for tissue in her body not yet sentient. There are very real and pressing questions about late term abortions. As a society we need to arrive at a stage of developlement that we will call sufficiently developed to be called "human" that can be easily detected and that we as society can live with.
Yeah, right. When I look around I'd rather take my chances with the animal kingdom than 99.9% of the humanoids stomping around on the earth.Who says human life is more precious? Oh yeah, uh, humans! Geez, that's a good argument . Based on the evidence, it sure doesn't seem like it.
Read about Hitler and read Helter Skelter about the Manson Family murders. Hitler and Manson both valued animal life more than human life. Very interesting thing to ponder.
