Heb. 1:6 (even in the NWT !) shows Jesus not to be an angel, but Jehovah
by hooberus 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Love_Truth
Hooberus,
Sorry, I just can't let that go.
Your comments in yellow highlight. I posted this Scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:20-28: 20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." [3] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
1 Corinthians 15:27 is talking about God putting all things under the man Jesus Christ's feet, not the feet of an angel (as in spirit creature).
As I said earlier, I knew this would happen, that is, it comes down to you believing Trinitarianism and me believing The Father(YHWH) is God, and Jesus Christ is His Firstborn Son, not God, but second to God, so a god. Although there is voluminous proof regarding the seperate and distinct nature of Jesus, the Son, and God, YHWH, the Father, let's dissect 1 Corinthians 15:23-28:
23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
This establishes an order in reference of things completed, and things yet to come: "when he comes, those who belong to him", as in "Second Coming".
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
Again, a future time, as he has not yet handed "over the kingdom to God the Father", nor has he yet "destroyed all dominion, authority, and power."
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (Italics mine)
Again, he reigns until a future time.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." [1] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
So, by the order of events, Christ is now in heaven, no longer in the form of fleshly man. Clearly, God(YHWH) is superior to Christ, as God is never subject to Jesus, yet Jesus is subject to God. Also, it is God alone who has the power and authority to put everything (excluding God Himself, YHWH) under Christ, not Christ himself who has this power.
28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
So, in the future, when this Scripture is accomplished, Christ having fulfilled it, God will once again take charge.
As a Trinitatrian, you will argue that Christ arose to heaven in the flesh, and still has that corruptible flesh, which according to 1 Corinthians 15:50:"I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.", this has clearly never been the case.
This Trinity debate has been going on since 300 years after Christ's resurrection. We're not going to "solve it" here, and it's already been covered thoroughly in other threads on this board.
So, as I stated earlier, IMO, it matters not, for Salvation's sake, believe what you will regarding Christ's nature. I can see no way, without twisting Scripture, to believe in a Trinity. It would have been taught explicitly in Scripture, were that the case. The Holy Sprit is God's spirit that comes upon his chosen people, not a personage, or form, of God.
I'll do my best to attempt to stay out of this thread from now on- I can understand folks defining "Angel" differently, and some folks, like FIL, trying to put words in my mouth that I never stated, 'tis human. But I just couldn't hold back from responding to at least that Scripture.
Christian love to you,
Love_Truth- Carry on, then.
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ozziepost
The Father(YHWH) is God, and Jesus Christ is His Firstborn Son, not God, but second to God, so a god.
Polytheism?
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hooberus
Love-Truth your scriptures that you posted have footnote links that link 1 Corinthians 15:27 as being a quote from Psalm 8:6:
Footnotes
- 15:3 Or you at the first
- 15:5 Greek Cephas
- 15:27 Psalm 8:6
- 15:32 Isaiah 22:13
- 15:45 Gen. 2:7
- 15:49 Some early manuscripts so let us
- 15:54 Isaiah 25:8
- 15:55 Hosea 13:14
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hooberus
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." [1] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
So, by the order of events, Christ is now in heaven, no longer in the form of fleshly man. Clearly, God(YHWH) is superior to Christ, as God is never subject to Jesus, yet Jesus is subject to God. Also, it is God alone who has the power and authority to put everything (excluding God Himself, YHWH) under Christ, not Christ himself who has this power.
Footnotes
- 15:27 Psalm 8:6
Your own footnote shows that Christ is a man. Psalm 8:6 is a psalm about God putting everything under mans feet. Therfore your claim that the one spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15:27 is "no longer in the form of fleshly man" is false.
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Love_Truth
hooberus,
Yes, I know that. I included my original quotation for clarity, (or so I thought).
Ozziepost,
Call it what you will, the Scriptures indicate that there are many "gods"(mentioned 238 times), but only one God:
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ozziepost
there are many "gods"(mentioned 238 times), but only one God
True, but they are "false gods".
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Love_Truth
Ozziepost,
They indeed are all false Gods, but not all are false gods. There is a distinction:
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[ 10:34 Psalm 82:6] ?
(Whole Chapter: John 10 In context: John 10:33-35)John 10:35
If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came?and the Scripture cannot be broken?
(Whole Chapter: John 10 In context: John 10:34-36)Acts 17:18
Now, now- we can argue about the definition of "false", eh? My point is that the one true god is God (YHWH), and that even Scripture acknowledges other gods. hooberus, That Christ became a man is without dispute. That he rose a spirit is also without dispute. You are clearly going beyond what is written in your interpretation, as I have pointed out both that: As a Trinitatrian, you will argue that Christ arose to heaven in the flesh, and still has that corruptible flesh, which according to 1 Corinthians 15:50:"I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.", this has clearly never been the case. And that it is possible, and happened, that Christ was a spirit, a fleshly man, and again, a spirit. Cheers, Love_Truth
A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
(Whole Chapter: Acts 17 In context: Acts 17:17-19)
1 Corinthians 8:5
For even if there are socalled gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"),
(Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 8 In context: 1 Corinthians 8:4-6) -
hooberus
Is the one in Psalm 8 to whom God will "put all things under his feet" a man or a spirit?
4: What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5: For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6: Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: