Passport to Heaven

by JW Answers 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cofty
    Shouldn't God give people what they really want?

    Sea Breeze your god is like an abusive husband who beats the crap out of his wife while shouting 'look what you made me do'.

    No christian genuinely loves such a monster. It's more akin to Stockholm Syndrome.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze


    Don’t you believe in free will?

  • Diogenesister

    No. There's no free will either way:

    A creator being, creates Humans in his image: Do as I say or I will kill you

    Evolution via natural selection. Human consciousness a consequence of complexity: Behave as your DNA codes you to behave

    Yes. I'm a determinist.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze


    Cofty previously condemned Calvinism, so I'm guessing he would not be a fan of Determinism either.

    So which is it Cofty?

    Do we have free will or not?

    The illogicalness of Cofty's emotional response with loaded language is just one of the myirad logical fallacies that atheists use to cover up their hatred of God..... the one that supposedly doesn't exist.

    One of atheists' supposed main gripes agains God is the existence of evil. They reason that a good God wouldn't allow evil. They fail to realize that God is primarily allowing freedom, and along with that artifact of our existence comes the ability to engage in evil. Evil follows freedom.

    Should God prevent the exercise of evil at the expense of those who attempt to restrain it? If the Government made us all live in prison cells, that would certainly limit evil; but at the cost of freedom.

    God's solution to "the problem of evil" is judgement. The Substitutionary Atonement of Jesus Christ is utterly meaningless if judgement is rejected as a necessary consequence of free society. The real object of hatred for atheists is Jesus' payment that he made on their behalf, which serves to preserve freedom and address evil at the same time. It is the need for a Savior that is so repulsive to the atheist because it implies that there is something in the atheist that needs to be addressed.

    I wanted to be an atheist for a time after leaving the WT. Too many things just didn't add up.

  • cofty

    I have never used evil as an argument against theism.

    Natural Evil does however prove that the god of Christian theism cannot exist

  • cofty

    I'm also not angry at god. That would be stupid. I'm disgusted and repulsed by xtian theology.

    Keep on attacking strawmen.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze


    You would not even be able to make your posts if Christianity wasn't true. How would you know what evil even was if we are nothing more that DNA copying mistakes and chemicals? What does it matter what one jar of chemicals does vs. another jar of chemicals?

  • cofty

    Sea Breeze - How many random points are you planning on making in this thread?

    If I was playing theist bingo I would have a full house by now.

    The argument from morality is facile. Would you like start a new thread so I can explain? Or is it the theodicy or free will or soteriology you want to make assertions about? You really have hit the jackpot for ill-informed arguments against something you don't even begin to understand.

    I don't want to give the bullshit in the OP above any more attention than it deserves.

    By the way I thought it was odd when you said you 'wanted' to be an atheist. Why? I just wanted to follow the evidence - feelings be damned.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    I thought it was odd when you said you 'wanted' to be an atheist. Why?

    For me, it was primarily a reflex from the indoctrination from the WT. The WT led me to believe that Christians were the most evil part of "Babylon the Great". So, Christianity was the last place I would look for truth after leaving. But, I got over the indoctrination little by little after learning to reason logically.

    I eventually realized that the laws of logic itself is rooted in a Christian worldview and not an atheist one. Laws imply a law giver. Chaos, random unguided DNA copying mistakes doesn't produce laws. And, if they did why would they be the same everywhere?

    Why would the laws of logic be so stable in a random happenstance universe? Why wouldn't the laws of logic be different in Austrailia, or on the moon if everything is just chance? It makes no sense. I believe that we know that the laws of logic are stable because they come from the Creator himself, "who changest not". (Mal. 3: 6)

    The atheist must borrow stability from the Christian worldview in order to attempt to formulate an argument against God. Very illogical.

    By the way, I spoke to Fred Williams, the host of Real Science Radio. He said he would love for you to come on the show and explain your ideas on evolution.

    Would you agree to explain evolution and atheism on the radio show?

    I suggest a format where he would ask questions to two former very active JW's (you and me, one atheist and one believer). It would be very respectful and you could reach a wide audience with your ideas.

  • slimboyfat

    It is God’s will that all shall be saved. 1 Tim 2.4

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