Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

by SecondRateMind 226 Replies latest jw friends

  • SecondRateMind
    A nonsensical and nonfactual statement, there are some very moral people with money, in generosity and giving as well retain moral social responsibility.

    Yes. But the thesis of the thread is; if the financially rich were really moral, they wouldn't be materially rich, because they would have already succoured the poor to the limit of their capacity. This is not nonsense, but a simple, direct, comprehensible statement of a moral position. However, it is, of course, non factual, insofar as any moral statement is a matter of opinion, rather than a matter of fact. Unless, that is, one believes one's own moral understanding to be equivalent and identical to that ideal morality sometimes called 'God's Will'.

    Best wishes, 2RM.

  • cofty
    any moral statement is a matter of opinion, rather than a matter of fact. Unless, that is, one believes one's own moral understanding to be equivalent and identical to that ideal morality sometimes called 'God's Will'.

    That isn't true.

    In fact it is only possible to discern objective morality by first excluding god from the conversation.

  • Giordano

    Here's something that can bring some perspective to the discussion.

    Finland has overtaken Norway to become the happiest nation on earth, according to a UN report.
    The 2018 World Happiness Report also charts the steady decline of the US as the world’s largest economy grapples with a crisis of obesity, substance abuse and depression.
    The study reveals the US has slipped to 18th place, five places down on 2016. The top four places are taken by Nordic nations, with Finland followed by Norway, Denmark and Iceland.

    The report, an annual publication from the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network, said all the Nordic countries scored highly on income, healthy life expectancy, social support, freedom, trust and generosity. The rankings are based on Gallup polls of self-reported well being, as well as perceptions of corruption, generosity and freedom.
    The UN report devotes a special chapter to why the US, once towards the top of happiness table, has slipped down the league despite having among the highest income per capita.
    “America’s subjective wellbeing is being systematically undermined by three interrelated epidemic diseases, notably obesity, substance abuse (especially opioid addiction) and depression,” said Jeffrey Sachs, director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University in New York, and one of the report’s authors.
  • SecondRateMind

    Well, guys and gals, it seems I have set the proverbial cat amongst the fictional pigeons. And I am not at all dissatisfied with that result. But, it's now getting on for my bed time. So, I bid you all good night, and look forward to picking up this discussion again, tomorrow.

    Sleep well, and sweet dreams. 2RM.

  • Finkelstein

    Is it morally or socially beneficial to oppress ones capability of advancing their monetary wealth, there was once an ideology with that kind of oppression it was called communism ?.

  • cofty

    You go to bed at 9pm? What about Graham Norton?

  • pale.emperor
    BUT in a healthy economic society there MUST BE inequality.

    Uh huh. Why, exactly? Why is it better that 1 person owns a million $ of shares, than a thousand people each own a thousand $ of shares?

    Because that's how the world works. If someone invents the iPod and hires 1,000 Chinese laborers to put the pieces together to create 1 million iPods, then sells those iPods and uses the money to pay the workers and invest the money back into making MORE iPods ad infinitum it's only fair that the inventor should have the bigger share. After all, the inventor thought it up and put the plans in place to get it out there and he also created all those jobs.

    If you were to say he only gets $33,000 and all the laborers also get $33,000 then he'd just not bother even designing and inventing the thing. Why would a Doctor or a nuclear physicist bother putting in all those hours of study, exams, hard work, late nights and no life when he could just become a litter picker or a mail man for the same wage?

    IT TAKES AWAY INCENTIVE and incentive is the key. And that's, partly, why communist/socialist states fail 100% of the time.

    Also, lets imagine we all have $33,000 and I own a grocery store. Why would i continue selling apples and bananas for £0.20 each? I'd immediately raise my prices to £5.00 each. Then guess what? Im richer than you because everyone is buying fruit for inflated prices because now the value of money is reduced.

    Capitalism works. It's not always nice or fair for the individual but it works. The solution to poverty is government intervening and providing a system where no one will starve or have no home but at the same time gives people the incentive to find work and work hard. I myself started off in a dingy one bedroom flat in a rough neighborhood working in a crap job. THIS gave me the incentive to look for a better job, work hard and find better living conditions.

  • LongHairGal


    When I was active in the JW religion there was an attitude among the have-nots (who chose NOT to work), that the “haves” somehow owed them something. If you were affluent and didn’t throw money around to the deadbeats like it was confetti - you were considered “selfish”. Lots of envy along with laziness there!

    I also totally disagree with what you said about anybody spending their whole life catering to the poor. You gotta be kidding.

    You are promoting a lifestyle like Jesus Christ, but the planet is different from those days. I can understand the spirit of having those less fortunate in mind in giving things to Goodwill and even a contribution to a worthwhile charity that really helps people. But, your attitude is like Robin Hood or Communism.

  • dubstepped

    I'm just trying to figure out how 2RM justifies time spent online when he should be spending that time making money to send to the poor. That internet connection and web capable device must cost too. Seems like they're pretty rich compared to some. Even the poor in developed nations are in the top percentage of wealth comparatively. Put your money up and start being equitable. Take the lead.

  • Wakanda

    Totally agree Dub.

    Personally got a yukky feeling about this post/ topic/ o.p. Mean things can be said in the sweetest way.

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