QUITTING QUIETLY here is the Canadian version of the document

by gone for good 84 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

gone for good

Simon -
On this forums opening page,you yourself advertise this place as "an independent community site offering support for both current and former Jehovah's Witnesses and anyone else who has been affected by the beliefs, doctrines and practices of the Jehovah's Witness religion as governed by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society
and provide a friendly, tolerant and informative environment where you can ask questions, share information and make new friends.
I've been lurking and posting here for 9 years. This is where I realized I was not alone in my guilt and shame.
It was the many great people I met here that convinced me that JWs had already lost the cream of the ethical,compassionate and intellectual crop. And I learned soso much - my own ignorance became undeniable
I left years ago as an elder 'in good standing' but totally disgusted with what I saw practiced against decent honest people in the congregation. One day I'll tell my/our story, names and ALL...
I hate that fucking cult with my whole soul so.. one day recently it occurred to me that although WT has boldly tackled modernities greatest moral issues like pillow-humping, tight pants and masturbation among the deaf - they seem quiet on the issue of human rights.
Given that their doctrine is a study in how to deny all Freedom of Religion/Conscience to their own members it begs the question of whether the church might fear or be affected by the exercise of Religous Freedoms granted under the Charter.
I devised a document which when signed constituted both a claim to, and an exercise of a Constitutional Right Plus - repudiated a vile cults corporate practices -all on one page.
Among the hundreds of far better approaches for leaving cults - this one seemed to really touch a nerve. For the heresy of imagining that Freedom of Religion in legal principle might actually translate to Freedom from a Religion by actual practice.
No suggestions were made about how the document was flawed in design, wording (verbose I know), how its' intentions are suspect, or how it harms anyone in anyway.
I invited constructive critisizm and got ridiculed as "an idiot who lacks the cranial capacity to understand simple concepts," My concept of 'using religous rights law to achieve a religious right' is "pure 100% gibberish nonsense" and that makes me "delusional" to at least two posters.
I guess I'll find out ir I'm 'locked' (for having a thought and defending it) when I hit post.
JeffT

There's been something nagging at the back of my mind while reading this thread, I finally figured it out tonight. Go to Youtube and do a search for "Sovereign Citizen." You will be treated to hours of video of knuckleheads armed with some paperwork they downloaded off the internet arguing with cops about how they don't need driver's licenses, insurance etc because those laws don't apply to them. I think we have the same thing going on here. The only reason they don't end the same way is because the elders can't arrest you.
Phizzy

I take all the points made against this strategy, by Jeff T and others, and say, yes, you are right. But what is there to lose by preparing such a document, and presenting it to Numbnuts Elders along with a threat to take Legal Action ?
Both threats have little weight, the Document would be shredded in Court no doubt, and if you threaten Legal Action and they know damn well that you do not have the funds, they could call your Bluff.
But what if it worked ? I do know of a case many years ago where just threatening the Elders with legal action caused them to drop everything, apart from the Rumour Mill , which did their job for them as far as getting the Shunning going was concerned, but you cannot stop that, unless again you are prepared to go to Court to stop slander, well good luck with that !
So at best, all you may achieve is no OFFICIAL action, but that may be all you want !
gone for good

Bit of a straw man there Jeff.
We're not "making up" the right to Freedom of Religion we are merely exercising it in the way the constitution intended.
This right "IS" the first amendment of your own constitution !! - do you think it was just filler or fluff to take up page space until a 'real' amendment came along ?? do you?
Jeff what's really nagging in the back of your mind is " how can I heap derision on this guy so that I don't have to think too deeply about religious freedom and how individuals might apply it to benefit their own life?.)
If complex discussions of Human Rights offend you, then just quietly move away - please don't embarrass yourself by conflating human rights with frat-boy underwear mistakes. Human dignity demands better.
Drearyweather

But what is there to lose by preparing such a document, and presenting it to Numbnuts Elders along with a threat to take Legal Action ?
Hi Phizzy, The problem is not about preparing the document. You have the complete freedom to do it. The problem is that the OP claims that this is "an easy, quick, and quiet way to exit the JW religion".
But it's not. We all well know why and are trying to explain it to him here.
MeanMrMustard

Go to Youtube and do a search for "Sovereign Citizen."
Suggestion: Do this in incognito mode - as it will screw up your YouTube feed for months.
StephaneLaliberte

Sinning a document like this will have the exact opposite of leaving quietly. For JWs, it will be considered as a dissociation letter, they will read: "So and so is no longer a JW" and you will be treated as an excommunicated.
Not long ago, the JWs won in Canadian Court for their right to disfellowship people causing them financial harm. The only angle I believe there would be a chance is to recognize the enforcement of shunning as intimidation and thereby, expose religions practising it to legal actions.
gone for good

Stephane- glad to hear fom you! I had hoped you might chime in.
The 'quiet' (unrealistic part) was intended so that liberated people could continue fading, visiting with family... until elders make trouble. Then, it's time to declare emancipation and it's also too late for elders ecclesiastic actions.
JWs cannot DF or DA non-members. You are (after signing)) a non-member. (religious practice is VOLUNTARY)
The Wall case? Mr.Wall was a JW when he abused his wife - so of course, their ecclesial law would apply. Wall is irrelevant to this discussion. 'Guinn' and 'Bear' cases both failed in court because they remained as voluntary members.
The document is NOT a disassociation letter, it mentions no church, doesn't infringe on any churches' rights nor their ability to discipline their own members.
If they self-identify with any of the repudiated hateful actions mentioned as examples, that's on them.
Our action was taken legally, peacefully and with the hope of broad-reaching benefits to society.
No reprisal can come to a person exercising their constitutional rights.
WT/JW have zero right and certainly no reason at law to prevent our exercise of constitutional freedom
No mention of their church is made and no threats forwarded.
BY the way, 'A threat of legal action is NOT a threat'.
MeanMrMustard

@gone for good:
The 'quiet' (unrealistic part) was intended so that liberated people could continue fading, visiting with family... until elders make trouble.
This is possible without a secret letter. Many people do this every day.
Then, it's time to declare emancipation and it's also too late for elders ecclesiastic actions.
No, it is not. You are completely mistaken here. They can still remove you from their membership roles, per your wishes, and make an announcement informing members of your choice.
JWs cannot DF or DA non-members.
JWs can never DA anyone, members or non-members. Only you, the individual, can disassociate.
You are (after signing)) a non-member. (religious practice is VOLUNTARY)
So? Nobody else knows. If you happen to let them know a year after signing, then they know and will adjust their records (something they can do, as it’s not an ecclesiastical activity, just records keeping).
The document is NOT a disassociation letter, it mentions no church, doesn't infringe on any churches' rights nor their ability to discipline their own members. If they self-identify with any of the repudiated hateful actions mentioned as examples, that's on them.
You are claiming the letter makes you a non-member, correct? That is the basis for the elders not having any authority over you, correct? You - yourself - by signing the letter are declaring yourself a non-member. So, if you hand this declaration to any elder (whether they are being pesky or not), you are informing them of your choice to be a non-member. This is a textbook definition of disassociation. This is precisely a DA letter.
Our action was taken legally, peacefully and with the hope of broad-reaching benefits to society.
When you leave the JWs, there is a benefit. When you believe you have some magic bullet to stop shunning, it creates false hope and that is not an improvement.
No reprisal can come to a person exercising their constitutional rights.
Right. So you exercise yours. They exercise theirs. Result - you are free, and you are shunned.
Let’s try to short-circuit this a bit. Forget the debate over the letter for a moment. If I were a member of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I call several elders tonight (get them all on a conference call) and say: “Hello everyone, I, MeanMrMustard, am not a member of JWs any longer. As of this moment, with all of you witnessing, I have left the organization.” Do you, @gone for good, think that the elders have a right to remove me from their roles and make an announcement about my choice?
gone for good

MeanrMustard -
You said regarding our exercise of religious rights:
"So you exercise yours. They exercise theirs. Result - you are free, and you are shunned."
Thank you for realizing we have achieved our single most important intention- YOU ARE FREE.
Using just our own pen and a public download - FREEDOM instantly, legally and peacefully.
Why on earth would someone who is not one of Jehovahs Witnesses tell 3 elders anything?
They are not your elders - not your church. NEVER SPEAK TO THESE A-HOLES AGAIN
Who gives a rats ass about shunning or stupid obsessive record keepers- we've kicked them to the curb..
Let's discuss how others will benefit from our freedom.

QUITTING QUIETLY here is the Canadian version of the document

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