Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter 113 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

blondie

GT, I'm sorry to hear about your pain and difficulty. I am one to talk. My husband was not a JW but married me when I was an inactive JW. But I was upfront, about saying no BDs, Xmas, or blood transfusions. That he shouldn't marry me if that bothered him. How funny to make a point of those things but not be going to the meetings or preaching door to door.
He married me, we went back, he got baptized, we both fnally were disenchanted enough to stop going last year. It has been almost a year. That is why I know your wife has to come to the realization herself. Nothng anyone said to us worked as well as see the unloving actions and hypocrisy at the Kingdom Hall. Your wife sounds like she has a superstitious attachment to the JW beliefs. Having children makes it difficult. My husband and I decided not to have children so we didn't add that to the difficulties (it turned out I couldn't have them anyway). My father wasn't a JW but my mother was and he was always accusing her of putting her religion ahead of him. It was unavoidable since it was a big division. I have seen the same in marriages that involve Mormons and non-Mormons, Muslim and Christina, Jewish and Christian.
No one knows your heart but you GT or the degree that your wife loves you. I would never wish a loveless marriage on anyone, even for the kid's sake. (saw that in my parents' marriage)
Even with my 45 years of experience with JWs, the Bible, and their doctrine, I avoid talking to the elders or anyone else. I figure if they have a change of heart, they will come find me.
Love to you and yours, GT
Blondie
Globetrotter

AnnOMaly
Thank you for your reply. It is obvious you have concern. I wasn't going to reply to your post, as I have just finished a very longwinded couple of posts, but I needed to deal with these:
Leave her alone. Respect her views
By continuing to turn only to the society for answers she cannot come up with herself, and for continuing to say flip-flopping on doctrine is OK, and for continuing to buy into "new light", her view are deserving of respect??!! C'mon. It's intellectual dishonesty.
Does she really have to see things YOUR way, or the marriage is over? C'mooon! I may have read you all wrong, but it sounds like you want to snap up for yourself the power the WTS appear to have over your wife.
NO! She does not. Some people feel they need god in their lives. If you read the posts I just finished writing, you will see that I was raised a Catholic. I started doubting them shortly after my first communion, when my little buddy and I were busted one Friday after mass because he went to communion with me. I was told that he could not participate because he was not catholic. OOOPS! The notion that god loves everybody just got discriminatory. I BEGGED my wife to come investigate other churches with me, to find a place where we could both worship. She absolutely refused. My investingation in the witnesses led me down several paths of biblical history and religion. It ultimately led to my lack of belief in god. I see no evidence whatsoever of a supreme being. My belief is that all relgion man-made. BUT, atheism can be and is discussed on other threads. The point of this paragraph it to point out that I wanted us to find a common demominaiton that we could both live with. Now, that isn't possible. SO, I do not try to 'convert' her to atheism (this is not something that is done anyway), nor do I want to 'snap up for myself the WTS power' WTF? I only encourage her (and my children) to read freely and arrive at their own conclusions. When we do talk about the bible, I do NOT say "Oh, this is all horseshit." I do say "I understand this passage to mean... or this appears to be an historical account of blah blah" (such as Revelation is merely John coming down on the early Christains of the first century and admonishing them for worshiping Rome... it has nothing to with the end of the world).
Of course, if you want your marriage to fail and have religion as the scapegoat, go right ahead.
Thank you for your permission, but that is not my intent. The safety of my children and my sanity and ability to lead a normal loving life is more my motivation for trying to get her to see the society for what it is. I realize you say in a later post that you may have been too harsh. Thank you for that admission. Sincerely. Others here who have been in similar shoes seem to have an appreciation for my situation. I hope you see now where I am coming from.
marriedtodamob

GT says: "The safety of my children and my sanity and ability to lead a normal loving life is more my motivation for trying to get her to see the society for what it is."
This is PRECISELY why I have decided to get out asap-I cannot get my over zealous husband to see diddly squat. I too tried the "find another church or common ground in spiritual matters" route and had the exact same outcome.
Again, when your lifemate holds an entirely different world view than you, it is extremely difficult to find ANY common ground with which to find something positive and hopeful, regardless of ANY other previous problems within the marriage. I would not dream of asking my husband to do anything that would go against his own conscience. However, I can choose whether or not to allow it to continue to affect me and my child. There comes a point of flight or fight-especially when your own children are telling you that they themselves want it all to just STOP.
That is where I personally had to draw the line.
We are here for you GT, and no, you have not taken up too much space or time on this forum-you have no idea who may need this, or what good you can bring about by continuing to share your story and life.
Warmly,
mobbie
Globetrotter

MarriedToTheMob,
Again, when your lifemate holds an entirely different world view than you, it is extremely difficult to find ANY common ground with which to find something positive and hopeful, regardless of ANY other previous problems within the marriage
However, I can choose whether or not to allow it to continue to affect me and my child. There comes a point of flight or fight-especially when your own children are telling you that they themselves want it all to just STOP.
Right on both points! Common ground slips away until the only thing left is the children. I will still be my children's father even if I am not married to their mother.
I forced her hand on the blood issue one day. I am O positve blood type - universal donor. I can give blood to anyone. She very reluctantly acquiesced to allowing me to give them blood if they ever needed it because it's family (I hope we never have to test that acquiescence). However, I can accept only O positive blood, and no one in my family is O positive. Do you know where this is going??? Yup, she says she would not allow me a transfusion if I needed one! How can I live with that?!! Those aren't my wishes.
Anyway, thank you for your understanding and support. I too, wish you all the best. You are a couple of steps ahead of me, and what you are going through is painful. Just keep focusing on the other side. I believe it will make all the difference in the world to you. You will finally be free to explore and experience life without nonsensical bullshit weighing on you and stifling your personal developement.
lisaBObeesa

Well , one more person?s opinion? just for yucks ..
One day I was reading a NIV bible and started to see the deception of the JW's. I was never the spritual JW, but my eyes were opened and I 've been researching about them since. It was as if a light went off.

In my experience, THIS (the above) is how JWs ?see the light?: Suddenly, and on their own! Nobody can tell them.

Garry said:
She needs to be rewarded for bad behavior with lots of trouble.

I absolutely do not agree with this at all. Bad behavior should be totally ignored?I am talking no reaction, no discussion, no anger, no praise no NOTHING. Like it never happened. That is the best way to get a person to stop doing something. (Before everyone freaks out, read the rest of this...)
Behaviorist will tell you that, believe it or not, giving a person ?trouble? is often the very thing they are after, and will encourage the behavior. Don?t give it to them!
(I learned this working with troubled teens and found it is true when dealing with other people, too. And it works great with 2 year olds! :)
Of course,
Sometimes action must be taken to prevent harm to others, but even that should be done quietly and with as little noise as possible. Or sometimes something must be said because personal integrity is on the line. Still, say it quietly and with as little ?noise? as possible, and then go back to not ?feeding it.?

Whatever behavior you want to stop, you ?starve.? Don?t ?feed? it with a good or bad reaction. No reaction, if possible.

No advice on the Saturday confrontation with the JWs - but if someone is trying to get someone 'out' - the best way to do it may not be to confront them with 'issues', but to take a vacation .
That's right - a vacation. Be sure to go where there are NO KH's - or 5 meetings a week??.Make it a three or four weeker - the longer the better?? get the other person away from the 5 meetings a week brainwashing that they are now exposed to. The less brainwashing an individual has - the clearer they are able to see things for what they are.

I copied this because this is great advice, IMO! Don?t talk against the Org (that would be 'feeding' it) ? just take her out for some fun! As often and as far away from witnesses as possible. This is ?feeding? the behaviors you want to encourage (being away from the JWs). ( Might be good for the marriage, too.)

Engage in as many activities outside of the Witness social circle as possible. Be sure you are more fun than the KH (not hard).

Again, I agree that this is key. ?Feed? being away from JWs. Make sure these activities are fun and make sure it is easy for her to do these things?

Because she was not baptized, the elders would not supply her with the letter of support. She was more pissed off than upset and said she would have nothing to do with the JWs after that. She filled out her application with no reservations/objections and proceeded to pass her interview.
Wow. After reading that, I think you actually could have some hope here! She sounds like me. J She doesn?t actually sound like she would make a very good JW.

And as for the meeting with the elders, I think it is just ?feeding? the jw behavior. I would try to make it a very boring meeting, and not make a big deal out of it?and let it fade away into the past.
-Lisa BO beesa
Disclaimer:
These are just my thoughts and what I would do if in your place. I wish you the best in whatever you decide to do!
lisaBObeesa

Yup, she says she would not allow me a transfusion if I needed one! How can I live with that?!! Those aren't my wishes.

Wow. That is not her choice. Wow. I don't know what to say. From the last couple of your posts you sound like you have already made up your mind...I am sorry you have to go through all this crap.
-LisaBOBeesa
ESTEE

(((((globetrotter)))))
You have my sympathy for what you must be feeling. From your posts, my sense is that you are in a very difficult spot, unsure of how to proceed or not with your marriage.
jgnat wrote:
If I were you, I would ask them what their stand is regarding marriage and family. Ask if they support the family unit. Ask them what they will do to help your family remain together.
No disrespect here ... I beg to differ. The elders' standard answer will be, "More service, more meeting attendance, more bible reading ..." and a famous one, "Are you having your weekly family study ...?" ... Then the speil will start about proper Christian headshipTM ...
Having flashbacks yet...?
I think -- by hook or by crook -- globetrotter needs to get out of this meeting. Cancel it. Just phone and say something has come up and whatever you do, do not reschedule it for another time. Just say, "Let's leave it for now, thanks ... goodbye." Whenever there are meetings arranged, that is not good news. The elders are on a fishing expedition here. Just know that your wife has already filled the elders in on your ummmmm ... "spiritual insubordination." No good can come of an elder meeting. Trust me on this. Go out on Saturday morning for a container of cream and come back around 3:00 p.m. ... if you know what's good for you.
Your wife is up to no good here, globe ...*shiver*
lisaBOBeesa wrote:
Behaviorist will tell you that, believe it or not, giving a person ?trouble? is often the very thing they are after, and will encourage the behavior. Don?t give it to them!
I agree with this. JWs already have a persecution complex. If you give her trouble, she will side with the elders thinking you are persecuting her. The elders of course will comfort your poor persecuted wifey and decide a judicial meeting is in order or some such stupid reaction.
Disappear on Saturday morning, globe ...
ESTEE
marriedtodamob

"Yup, she says she would not allow me a transfusion if I needed one! How can I live with that?!! Those aren't my wishes."
This was the "Icing on the cake for me", GT. It was very wisely pointed out to me by Blondie that having a medical directive is very prudent and I urge you to do this asap. However, it hit me as complete INSANITY that I would have to protect myself from my own husband and his 4th generation JW family! This was when the "NEW LIGHT" really hit me-a true life changing EPIPHANY...
I thank my understanding of GOD that my son is not his...but still the what if's are far to great...
PS-I agree with Estee and others-EXIT STAGE RIGHT on Saturday-you could find a million and one other ways to spend that day! Don't waste it!
So glad you are here!
mobbie
hornetsnest

Hi, Globetrotter,
If you wish to use the blood issue, look this over: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/41260/1.ashx
I must warn you though, that when you back them in a corner (and you will), they tend to get mad. (Grin)
LoneWolf
AnnOMaly

Hi Globetrotter, Thanks for your response I do see more where you are coming from.
By continuing to turn only to the society for answers she cannot come up with herself, and for continuing to say flip-flopping on doctrine is OK, and for continuing to buy into "new light", her view are deserving of respect??!! C'mon. It's intellectual dishonesty.
Maybe it is intellectual dishonesty, but she can't or won't see that and the more you push it and undermine her, the more polarized the both of you will be. So yes, IMHO, her cockamamy views should be respected, or to be precise, her right to hold those cockamamy views should be respected (as she should yours). You said she was 'bull-headed,' so if she's anything like me there's hope for her yet. Leave her be.
I only encourage her (and my children) to read freely and arrive at their own conclusions. When we do talk about the bible, I do NOT say "Oh, this is all horseshit." I do say "I understand this passage to mean... or this appears to be an historical account of blah blah" (such as Revelation is merely John coming down on the early Christains of the first century and admonishing them for worshiping Rome... it has nothing to with the end of the world).
Great! Freedom to read, discuss and arrive at their own conclusions (like you did). So I don't understand, why this?
I got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised Jehovah's Witness wife. We discussed so many things: Feb 1 Watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the UN, Beth Sarim, blood, God's mouthpiece here on earth, etc. This was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.
Why did it get heated? Why were you trying to plant doubts? I don't get it.
The safety of my children and my sanity and ability to lead a normal loving life is more my motivation for trying to get her to see the society for what it is.
I hear you. However the safety of your kids and your sanity and leading a 'normal' (whatever that is) loving life is not dependent on the presence or absence of the WTS. If she gave up being a JW tomorrow, would it solve everything? Would you finally have the 'perfect' marriage your parents had?
The reason I've been direct is because I have seen marriages break up due to fanaticism - by BOTH parties. One marriage I know - he left the WTS, became atheist and fanatically went into politics. He was right about everything. He knew it all. He knew his family was being brainwashed and he regularly voiced his views. His wife was a fanatical JW, also an unreasonable, bull-headed, foolish person anyway. There was no middle ground, no meeting half-way. They eventually divorced. That set in motion a series of events that seriously harmed some of the children.
what about the children? How do I approach my kids at their age and teach them to screen out all the bullshit of this religion and take away only the love and kindness of God (if they chose to believe)? This religion is DANGEROUS to children on so many levels.
To me, that is being slightly over-dramatic. But as for you, you can teach them by example. Continue to show them (and your wife) the love and kindness you want them to express in life.
It does sound like both you and your wife have serious issues with each other. Her apparent rabid religious devotion might be a symptom of something rather than the cause. Have you ever entertained the idea of getting outside counselling?
Most concerned,
Ann

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

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