Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter 113 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jgnat

  The Witnesses are banking on "the meek will inherit the earth" verse and all the aggressive so-and-so's that have been persecuting them all these years will be a puff of smoke. That is what they see when they look at you. A puff of smoke.

  They want this meeting to prove that you are an "opposer", a puff of smoke. You want to prove to THREE brain-warped people that you are right and they are wrong? The cards are stacked against you in this type of confrontation. It is just as important in this kind of meeting to monitor your tone of voice and body language. Be meeker than they are. That way, they see you as "potential convert" rather than "puff of smoke".

  If I were you, I would ask them what their stand is regarding marriage and family. Ask if they support the family unit. Ask them what they will do to help your family remain together.

  This kind of war to preserve your family is better won through guerilla techniques. Fight your wife alone, not the whole society. Ask an insightful question then leave her alone with it. Engage in as many activities outside of the Witness social circle as possible. Be sure you are more fun than the KH (not hard).
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  elamona

  If you are lookinf for ammo go to : www.jwfiles.com He has an incredible amount of info on all the of conflicting and wrong WTBTS stuff.
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  Odrade

  I have to agree with Blondie. What got me out was NOT doctrinal issues. At most I have an academic interest in doctrine now, and then, I believed it fanatically so no amount of scripture discussion could have persuaded me.

  I broke free because of POLICY. Organ transplant changes, vaccination changes, blood doctrine "adjustments." The two witness rule in cases of child abuse, the registration as a "cultural society" in Mexico so the poor JWs in that country thought they were under ban. Allowing the Mexican JWs to bribe officials for their required service cards while at the same time, Malawians were being beaten, driven from their homes, raped and killed for not buying a political ID card.

  I broke free because of lack of love. Letting elders and others in the congregation tell me I can exercise my own conscience, then telling me what my conscience should say, and ostracizing me if my conscience was different from theirs. Counseling me because someone in the hall decided I "should" regular pioneer because I only work part-time (30 hours/week). When I said "no" all social invites (which were not many anyways because we occasionally missed meetings, so were not upbuilding associates.) all social invites ended. Elder's wife said right in front of me to another sister that she didn't consider me "appropriate" association because I should be more active (meaning pioneering.)

  Stick to policy and unkindnesses. They can't argue with that. Doctrine is too nebulous and too easily twisted. That's what I would do...

  Odrade
• 

  detective

  ugh! This brings back some not-so-distant memories- struggling to salvage a relationship with a cult member- shudder!

  Yes, a cult member. Dealing a Jehovah's witness cult member has much in common with dealing a member of any destructive high-control group- it takes time, patience and a desire to maintain a relationship with the cult member. You sound as if you may not have the desire to maintain your marital relationship, which is entirely your decision. You need to make healthy choices for yourself as you are not in a "normal", healthy relationship if you are involved with cult member, despite what some might say.

  I don't know anything about your wife or her level of participation in the jehovah's witness cult. She may be a fringe believer or a full blown fanatic, I really don't know. However, if your wife is an active participant and a believer it will be damn difficult maintain a relationship. It really doesn't matter too much what high-control group she is in, it just matters that she is in one... and in my opinion, the best way to salvage your relationship is to get her out the high-control group. I'm sure some will disagree with me (ann!) but I strongly believe the only way to make it work if you've got a fanatic on your hands is to get em out.

  That said, you invited two tambourine shakers into your home on saturday. Jehovah's witnesses, Hare Krishnas, Scientologists... all different, all the same. You've got two cult members coming over, if you start to get flustered keep in mind that that is who they are. They are both the enemy (as the group they promote is a danger to your family...and not the enemy, as they too have been victimized. Use caution!

  On Saturday, Know empathy, know pity, know the value of being able to think & research freely. My best advice to you is to be kind and ask questions in an almost demure fashion. You can decide how the conversation will go if you keep your cool. Ask leading questions- I know, I already said that but I had to say it again...

  best of luck
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  BONEZZ

  Globetrotter....

  Maybe go to that great "Quotes" website and copy off a bunch of their flip-flops. It's really hard for them to explain the 180 degree about-faces as "tacking" or "new light". They also hate it when they are confronted with their own "spirit-directed food" from the GB that is total nonsense. They always take the opportunity to attack other religions for this kind of flip-flopping but they cannot defend themselves from it. Some that come to mind, besides the ones already listed...Will people from Sodom & Gomorrah be resurrected? To scream or not to scream if being raped (fornication charges if not screaming). Who are the superior authorities? Of course U.N. & child molestation coverups in "God's Org". And all the false dates for big "A". If it really is "God's" Boys directing, then God must be stoned outa his head for what he's feeding these guys. Good LUCK.

  -BONEZZ
• 

  FreeWilly

  Globetrotter,

  Refute 607 the easy way.

  Keep it simple !!. Make one point and only one point regarding 607. This has worked for me on a couple of occasions.

  Background: JW's came up with the dates 607 (for Jerusalem?s fall to Babylon), and 1914 (the last days) all from the interpretation of one dream recorded in the book of Daniel. The Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar had a dream involving all sorts of imagery. JW's gave meaning to these images to come up with their wacky dates. However, if you simply keep reading the account in the book of Daniel, only a few paragraphs later, Daniel himself explains the interpretation of this dream. He explains to the King Nebuchadnezzar that this dream applies to him. There's no 607+ 7 time periods + day for a year = 1914 formula is mentioned at all. Daniel plainly says what the dream means.

  Step 1): Ask how they come up with 1914 in the Bible. When "Tree Dream" mentioned in the book of Daniel. Have them read it to you and explain it. STAY IN DANIEL as much as possible. They are going to give you all sorts of explanations regarding the significance of all of the items mentioned in the dream. Make them continue reading until they get to the part where the prophet Daniel himself, gives the interpretation of it (Daniel 4:24).

  Step 2) Say "The Bible clearly says what this dream means..... What gives anyone the right to change the meaning?

  Step 3) Keep quiet and listen patiently. (They will come up with something)

  Step 4) Say again "The Bible clearly says what this dream means..... where in the Bible does it say the meaning of this dream is different from what Daniel actually says it means" ?

  Step 5) Insist they show you from the Bible, where it gives them license to creat a special interpretation of the Tree Dream in Daniel. This is the Achilles heel.

  Conclude saying: ?I don?t see anything in the Bible that indicates any other meaning for this dream than the one Daniel clears states ? that?s why none of the predictions surrounding 1914 came true.?

  Supplemental questions for them:

  Why didn't Jesus mention this new, special, JW interpretation of the dream??

  Why didn't any of the Apostles mention the dreams new meaning ?

  Is it possible that the dream really means what Daniel say it means AND NOTHING MORE?

  Could this be why the generation of 1914 DID pass away?
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  FreeWilly

  BTW,

  I agree with everyone else, this is going to be a futile attemp. But I suggest, whatever point you try to make, stick to just that point and be crystal clear about it. If you hope to show your wife any of the flaws in their teaching you must stick to one thing, keep it simple and clear, don't get bogged down in other issues. You want her to walk away with only one topic to think about. Don't run the gamit.
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  peacefulpete

  I wish it were true that all that is required is exceptional respect on the part of the nonJW for such a divided marriage to be happy. I know that many have continued in such a relationship and are content with it. This is a testimony to their great respect and tolerance. Yet, serious problems ususally are inevitable. Many issues are nonnegotiable. Sex pactices, holidays, medical decisions for children, political/humanitarian involvement, fundemental values, etc. stress the relationship everyday. It is true that many marriages are not the meeting of two minds in partnership that ideally we all desire. If all that is required for both parties to be content is a warm house and occasional dry hump then such a union can fill those needs. Few have such low expectations of marriage.
  
  The JW somewhat isolates themselves from their partner emotionally. They have to. They cannot talk about what they did at the KH or out preaching without hoping to persuade their partner to join them. Frustration eventually sets in and complacency takes over. They begin living secret lives, lives they are not ashamed of, but don't feel free to share. Further, to have a closenesss with a "worldly" person is recognised as corrosive to their "faith". And it i. Key to being a JW is isolation from the rest of the world. It simply is not possible to have a disgust for what a person does and views they have without it changing the relationship with the person. Those that appear to do so are living lies, lives of "silent desperation". They wish so much for things to be different yet will endure the present. Closeness becomes a facade. The marriage a parody. I too know of divided marriages that continue on. The nonJW mate is usually a closet JW that doesn't want to do the requirements or the JW is a "church going" JW that makes many compromises.
  
  To even suggest that the fault lies with the nonJw's lack of respect for his wife's religion is misguided and unhelpful. Fault is not the issue, serious incompatability is. No one is suggesting the JW is deliberatly ruining the marriage, why even hint that the nonJw is?
  
  What is always good advice is remaining peaceful and calm. Difficult to do when your life is falling apart,true. I agree that the best course is the one that leaves you and your wife with as few of bad memories as possible. You have to decide what that is. Arguing with Elders in your home is not likely to bring good results anyway you look at it.
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  Sassy

  I know someone said earlier in this thread that JWs do not know their bible. I really don't know that I agree with that. Some don't but many do. If you are not comfortable with your bible background, do not use that as your strong points to talk about. The thing is not so much to cause doubt regarding the scriptures, but the organization the Watchtower and Tract Society and it's dealings, as you mentioned, the UN, the child molestation coverups, etc.. They really don't know what to say about those things. They aren't prepared with answers on those grounds.
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  marriedtodamob

  Wow...there are a lot of great comments here. I MUST reply to this thread as I am also living in this madness as well, at least for awhile longer. Because of the love, commitment and respect for my JW husband, I chose to walk this journey out over this last year of his reinstatement and had to see where it would go. This is my second marriage, and I was not about to see it fail just because of some stupid cult. I love my husband very much, and I had to walk out this very painful journey to learn just what I could and could not live with. That included going through an entire year of no holidays or birthdays, etc. I am so glad I took the journey rather than running at the first sign of disaster, which I could have done so easily.

  I personally have come to realize that even though I am knowledgeable, intelligent and extremely capable of doing so, I do not have the emotional energy to take on his elders or his family. For me, it would just be more emotional blackmail. That is just me. I instead have chosen to put my energy into taking care of myself and my son and getting out before it gets much worse. I cannot change anything where my JW husband is concerned-I am completely powerless to do so, and to try for me is more madness and co-dependency.

  Peaceful Pete-your comments were almost too eerie for me to read as they are so true to my life, with the exception that I am NOT nor will I EVER be a JW or a closet one.

  I must agree that having the Witnesses over is a bad move if one is already pretty well convinced that "the marriage itself is effectively over". It seems clear like many other posters have already commented that there are other marriage difficulties at issue here, and that the JW stuff is perhaps the proverbial "Icing on the cake" or the "Straw that broke the camel's back"

  I cannot and will not be able to give you any great wisdom about how to defend yourself against the JW's if you insist on allowing them into your home or she does.

  What I can offer is this: Just what is your objective here? If you truly believe in your heart that the marriage is effectively over, why this now? Is there still a shred of hope in your heart for this marriage? What will it take to get you completely out or completely committed to staying in? What are you willing to do and not do? I think those are the questions I would ask myself, and believe me, I have.

  Living in limbo day to day has not been healthy for me, and I knew that I could not save anyone but myself from WTBTS. I have learned that I cannot live with it in my home either, but I have had to walk through that this past year to truly understand. Can you truly accept her and love her unconditionally regardless of other marriage issues? Walk it out, talk it out, and make your final decision, but make it soon.

  Safe Journey dear friend,

  mobbie