I’d
like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend
of 1 ½ years who is a Jehovah’s Witness, born into it, baptized and an
active ‘pioneer’. Our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her
JW friends and cohorts know that we are together. Once married she may
simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out –
one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – I
am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly
‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due
to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from
society elders about her ending the relationship. I do not believe this
society would condone divorce as, from what I understand of what they
presume presently, a woman can only divorce for a husband’s infidelity,
whether he’s a believer or disbeliever (my feelings about the whole
thing tend more toward disbelief than unbelief – it’s not that I simply
don’t believe it, it’s that I can’t believe anyone ever could believe
it). I am hoping it would culminate in some sort of reprimand at worst
and, once it is said and done, we can finally be free to be together
openly in all cases. I want us to be absolved of the secrecy and the
abnormality of the not ‘letting on’, despite it being a such a good,
beautiful, true and above all, normal (!) circumstance. Having known her
for so very long and having been close to her for many years I know
much of what she thinks and mostly, I’m quite sure, what she feels. I
know she wants the relationship to move forward and that she wants it to
be safe from any such meddling and I certainly know that she loves me
and she knows I want the same and knows that I do love her, so dearly.
She tells me that she’s fine when I’m around (I live at her house 4 to 5
days and nights of each week – it’s been the case for many months) but,
when I’m not around she lives in a state of fearfulness, and, I expect,
guilt. My becoming a JW (another option) is so far out of the question
as to be utterly ridiculous - she knows this, she knows that I’m a
vehement agnostic who came to it by way mainly of imposed Christianity
and, much to her credit, and my relief, hasn’t tried to persuade me
believe any of what she does (or likely, must). There’s nothing about
her that is remotely Jehovah’s Witness-y, it is a terrible, unbecoming
fit for her personality, but she was born into it and is, I believe,
because of that, mostly incapable of escaping the many grave and
dreadful notions they rely on, not to mention the lifelong paranoia due
to the fear embraced and inherent in it along with the threats and the
humiliation so often employed to keep everything without variable.
What
I’m most wanting is input on details on what sort of ‘punishment’ she
may expect once our marriage is public to all and input on what society
elders can and cannot do over willful marriage of a baptized JW to an
ardent disbeliever. I’m not looking so much for advice on if I should do
this or not or the situation in general – I have those aspects already
sorted. I fully understand who I’m with – I know her better than I know
some immediate family members. I do love her, she does love me, I want
to preserve this relationship while also minimizing or ideally, averting
any damage that could be handed to us by this society.
Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW
by doasthouwilt 44 Replies latest social relationships
-
doasthouwilt
-
Foolednomore
In most cases a disfellowshipping will ensue once found out by the the nose of the elder body. Even before marriage, she can get caught with you in her house and be accused of fornication which is a disfellowshipping outcome. It it would be by a nosey fellow Jw who sees you too together.
-
joey jojo
If the elders find out you have been living at her place before you were married and you were both alone, I doubt she will be allowed to remain a pioneer at the very least. More likely she will be reproved, maybe disfellowshipped depending on the circumstances of your living arrangements prior to marriage.
An active pioneer secretly marrying a worldly guy would almost be an embarrassment to the local cong. and they may want to set an example for others.
Thats short term. If she keeps going to meetings and shows everyone that you married for love, eventually she will probably be able to pioneer again.
-
Foolednomore
They don't look to non Jw's marrying Jw's too kindly.
-
hoser
Get ready to be love bombed my friend. You will be considered fresh elder material.
-
doasthouwilt
I know that some of the outcome relies on what details she's asked and what details she gives when our status is, by one means or another, revealed. I know by marring before any of that can happen that there can be no requirement to divorce in order to prove repentance, in-turn saving a relationship we both want to have. That is one half of it. Another reason for marrying is possibly minimizing the sort of 'trouble' she gets in. Yes, I do live with her largely, yes we 'fornicate' wonderfully and often - I would not be surprised if such questions came up once she admitted to having married me, but let's say she doesn't decide to offer those details and that it's simply the case of dear friends who love each other undeniably, eloped and were quickly married - wouldn't disfellowshipping be way overboard? I know that she'll face one variety of scolding or another (and yes, loss of 'Pioneer' status - whatever benefit there actually is to that made-up title) but DF'd?!
-
doasthouwilt
Hoser - I'm assuming by "love-bombed" you mean set on as a potential new convo by means of showing "love" (correct me if I'm wrong, but that certainly is a scenario I know may exist). Thing is, twofold - the elders will NEVER meet me and I may choose to stay clear of her JW cohorts / friends to keep my need for incredulity at a minimum (I'd RATHER know some of them, but if it comes to that sort of thing and they persist, they will not have the pleasure). It's hard to explain without knowing me personally, but I'm not a "sell", never will be - the phrase "talking to a wall" doesn't go far enough. I will be polite, but if the topic turns to that they will get 0 response - for all else, I'll be willing, friendly and truly likable - this will be evident within a couple sentences.
-
Diogenesister
Yes you definitely will not be required to divorce! I'm happy for you both ☺️(You seem like you have your head screwed on) with one proviso: Just be aware If you ever have kids there could be issues with how you raise them..... as you don't believe and she does. Because she will no doubt wish to raise them in. However since you both know each other so well I'm sure you'll work things out.
As to problems post marriage the only issue will be when they take her in for a grilling (which they will). I would definitely advise going with her as her husband and you do the answering because - and I can guarantee this - they will ask her if you consummated your relationship before marriage....
......and how often.
........And what ya did....😳Yup.That's how they roll.
As a believer she will struggle to lie and if she admits what she's done she will be disfellowshipped (not for marriage but for sleeping with each other prior to marriage). If you guys deny this you should be golden. They may take away her pioneer privileges for a bit, but they'll soon be reinstated.
Good luck and best wishes!
-
doasthouwilt
Diogenesister - Thanks, you bring something up that I hadn't considered and I am looking for just such insights so I can be better prepared for what may be ahead. While I do know that the role of the husband is to be 'head of the household' I hadn't thought about this applying to a disbelieving husband, I never considered going along and answering questions as the husband / the 'head' - I fully expect she's free to speak-up no matter (don't know how far this 'head' notion goes) but, is it possible that I can simply defer them to myself, asserting my husbandly 'authority'?? I'll be the first to say I'm looking for LOOPHOLES! I certainly would go along if my position as husband will have some clout, when that time comes.
As for kids - we're now mostly too old, at least for it to be wise, and I've never wanted kids no matter. She has an IUD as well - chances of a kid are nearly 0. But, just to fill in the pic a bit more, she DOES have a teenage son from her 1st marriage (I was her best man at that wedding!) who was raised JW. Her son (a fantastic, likable kid) is another tricky part of this scenario. She's torn about marrying me in as much as she would have to let him know and she, directly or not, instructed him that to be in a relationship such as our own isn't 'right'. Her son and I get along well, with lots in common, and she's even said I'd make a fantastic stepfather. I would love to have that opportunity, I would. I love him as well. To be honest, I believe he knows about us anyway. I live at her place mostly on the days / nights when he is not there, but he does encounter me often enough - I even stay over once every couple of weeks on a night when he is at her place, but we go to bed well after he does and on non-school days I have to get up quite early to clear out. I SO wish he did know, as would be normal, and that the troubles would be minimal. I believe he'd be glad about it.
You're quite right - she WILL struggle, but I believe she's up to it. I asked her once if she thought our being together and all it entailed was expressly GOOD - she said it was. I then asked her if it were possible that something could be good but not be RIGHT, this she didn't answer in words, though I could see on her face what the answer was. She'll struggle, but I don't think she's willing to accept being unnecessarily ostracized for something good. I'm trying like mad to make this work, I think she respects that and I think knows, intrinsically, that a thing can be GOOD despite any popular or non-popular 'concept' of RIGHT. I, of course, know it's BOTH. -
FFGhost
what sort of ‘punishment’ she may expect once our marriage is public to all and input on what society elders can and cannot do over willful marriage of a baptized JW to an ardent disbeliever.
Nothing overt - no announcement that she is disfellowshipped (excommunicated) or anything like that.
BUT
She will be completely and utterly marginalized socially, particularly if you don't show any inclination to start "studying" with JWs (with the goal of converting you).
It will be "bad enough" once folks find out she married an "unbeliever", but once they find out that you also have no intention of ever being a JW, she will be "informally shunned". She will be viewed as "bad association" and never ever ever EVER get any social interaction with any JW outside of the Kingdom Hall. No invitations to anything, if you guys invite anyone (well nearly anyone) over to your place they will refuse.
I don't know how important it is for her to remain a JW, but it will be a very unpleasant experience for her if it still means anything to her. She will feel disfellowshipped although technically not.
Please think carefully about what you are doing, and talk to her about what to expect. Show her this thread. Do as you see best, just know that upon marrying you she will never again, or not for many decades, ever "fit in" with JWs socially.