Are these PETA people nuts?

by Thunder Rider 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • elamona
    elamona

    This is a dirty little secret that PETA and vegans DON'T want you to know..........................

    The Least Harm Principle Suggests that Humans Should Eat Beef, Lamb, Dairy, not a Vegan Diet.

    The following abstract and the aforementioned title were written by S.L. Davis, Department of Animal Sciences, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR 97331.

    Wildlife Damage Control has received permission to reprint this abstract in its entirety which was "Previously published in the Proceedings of the Third Congress of the European Society for Agricultural and Food Ethics, 2001, pp 449-450."

    Again, this article was NOT written by Stephen Vantassel. See my version of this principle written long before this article at Uneasy Conscience of the Animal Rights Movement.

    Key words: veganism, least harm, farm animals, field animals.

    Introduction
    Although the debate over the moral status of animals has been going on for thousands of years (Shapiro, 2000), there has been a resurgence of interest in this issue in the last quarter of the 20th century. One of the landmark philosophical works of this period was the book by Regan (1983) called "A Case for Animal Rights." In that book, Regan concludes that animals do have moral standing, that they are subjects-of-a-life with interests that deserve equal consideration to the same interests in humans, and therefore have the right to live their lives without human interference. As a consequence, he concludes that humans have a moral obligation to consume a vegan (use no animal products) diet and eliminate animal agriculture. However, production of an all vegan diet also comes at the cost of the lives of many animals, including mice, moles, gophers, pheasants, etc. Therefore, I asked Regan, "What is the morally relevant difference between killing a field mouse (or other animal of the field) so that humans may eat and killing a pig (or chicken, calf or lamb) for the same purpose? Animals must die so that humans may eat, regardless whether they eat a vegan diet or not. So, how are we to choose our food supply in a morally responsible manner?" Regan's response could be summarized by what may be called the "Least Harm Principle" or LHP (Regan, Personal Communication). According to LHP, we must choose the food products that, overall, cause the least harm to the least number of animals. The following analysis is an attempt to try to determine what humans should eat if we apply that principle.

    Regan's Vegan Conclusion is Problematic

    I find Regan's response to my question to be problematic for two reasons. The first reason is because it seems to be a philosophical slight of hand for one to turn to a utilitarian defense (LHP) of a challenge to his vegan conclusion which is based on animal rights theory. If the question, "What is the morally relevant difference?" can't be supported by the animal rights theory, then it seems to me that the animal rights theory must be rejected. Instead, Regan turns to utilitarian theory (which examines consequences of one's actions) to defend the vegan conclusion.

    The second problem I see with his vegan conclusion is that he claims that the least harm would be done to animals if animal agriculture was eliminated. It may certainly be true that fewer animals may be killed if animal agriculture was eliminated, but could the LHP also lead to other alternative conclusions?

    Would pasture-based animal agriculture cause least harm?

    Animals of the field are killed by several factors, including:

    1. Tractors and farm implements run over them.
    2. Plows and cultivators destroy underground burrows and kill animals.
    3. Removal of the crops (harvest) removes ground cover allowing animals on the surface to be killed by predators.
    4. Application of pesticides.

    So, every time the tractor goes through the field to plow, disc, cultivate, apply fertilizer and/or pesticide, harvest, etc., animals are killed. And, intensive agriculture such as corn and soybeans (products central to a vegan diet) kills far more animals of the field than would extensive agriculture like forage production, particularly if the forage was harvested by ruminant animals instead of machines. So perhaps fewer animals would be killed by producing beef, lamb, and dairy products for humans to eat instead of the vegan diet envisioned by Regan.

    Accurate numbers of mortality aren't available, but Tew and Macdonald (1993) reported that wood mouse population density in cereal fields dropped from 25/ha preharvest to less than 5/ha postharvest. This decrease was attributed to migration out of the field and to mortality. Therefore, it may be reasonable to estimate mortality of 10 animals/ha in conventional corn and soybean production.

    There are 120 million ha of harvested cropland in the US (USDA, 2000). If all of that land was used to produce a plant-based diet, and if 10 animals of the field are killed per ha per year, then 10 x 120 million = 1200 million or 1.2 billion would be killed to produce a vegan diet. If half of that land (60 million) was converted to forage production and if forage production systems decreased the number of animals of the field killed per year by 50% (5 per year per ha), the number of animals killed would be:

    1. 60 million ha of traditional agriculture x 10 animals per ha = 0.6 billion animals killed.
    2. 60 million ha of forage production x 5 animals of the field = 0.3 billion.

    Therefore, in this hypothetical example, the change to include some forage-based animal agriculture would result in the loss of only 0.9 billion animals of the field instead of 1.2 billion to support a vegan diet. As a result, the LHP would suggest that we are morally obligated to consume a diet of ruminant products, not a vegan diet, because it would result in the death of fewer animals of the field.

    But what of the ruminant animals that would need to die to feed people? According to the USDA numbers quoted by Francione (2000), of the 8.4 billion animals killed each year for food in the US, 8 billion of those are poultry and only 41 million are ruminants (cows, calves, sheep, lambs). Even if the numbers of ruminants killed for food each year doubled to replace the 8 billion poultry, the total number of animals that would need to be killed under this alternative would still be fewer (0.9 billion + 82 million = 0.982 billion) than in the vegan alternative (1.2 billion).

    In conclusion, applying the Least Harm Principle as proposed by Regan would actually argue that we are morally obligated to move to a ruminant-based diet rather than a vegan diet.

    References

    Davis, S.L. 2000. What is the Morally Relevant Difference between the Mouse and the Pig? Pp. 107-109 in the Proceedings of EurSafe 2000; 2nd Congress of the European Society for Agricultural and Food Ethics.

    Francione, Gary L. 2000. Introduction to Animal Rights: Your child or the dog? Temple University Press. Philadelphia.

    Regan, Tom. 1983. A Case for Animal Rights. University of California Press, Berkeley.

    Shapiro, L.S. 2000. Applied Animal Ethics, pp. 34-37. Delmar Press.

    Tew, T.E. and D.W. Macdonald. 1993. The effects of harvest on arable wood mice. Biological Conservation 65:279-283.

    USDA. 2000. www.nass.usda.gov/Census/Census97/highlights.

    Stephen Vantassel owns Wildlife Damage Control and is a Certified Wildlife Control Professional. He is a nationally known writer including having been an assistant editor for Wildlife Control Technology magazine, author of numerous ADC articles as well as The Wildlife Removal Handbook rev.ed and the Wildlife Damage Inspection Handbook rev. ed. Mr. Vantassel is also a vocal critic of the growing animal rights movement. He has exposed the fallacies and deceptions of the animal rights protest industry through debate, lecture and publication...............................

    The above was a study done by a bioethicist on vegan diets. So eat meat people, you'll kill fewer animals!!!!!!!!

  • patio34
    patio34

    Sorry Thunder, I went to the link you gave and it didn't work. Then did a search for PETA. There were two sites: one was their official one and another was for kids, with coloring books, etc.

    The one link about Santa was clearly on the official site and was not aimed towards kids. It even shows Santa on the clickable link holding the front of his pants open and the caption was: Santa is not coming this Xmas. This wasn't on the kids site.

    It seems you misunderstood that it aimed towards kids. It was a parody about erectile dysfunction from having arteries clogged.

    How do arteries get clogged?

    From too much cholesterol.

    Where only does one ingest cholesterol from?

    By eating anything with a brain. Vegans never ingest cholesterol.

    Pat

  • SheilaM
    SheilaM

    I find them choosing to use Santa in their ad revolting, I could think of many things fummier than dissing Santa.Also, as I said ain the dialogue a child that can read would think Santa wasn't coming for Christmas. I could read when I was 4 so .......

    Also, I have known many people that consumed milk for years and they have lower cholesterol then the vegans I know. Lindda McCartney was a vegan and died from cancer. Say what you will but someone that is not vegan that takes care of themselves is as healthy as one that is a Vegan.

    Also, Thunder consumes mass quantities of milk and errrr he will be coming for Chritmas.

  • Stephanus
    Stephanus
    How do arteries get clogged?

    From too much cholesterol.

    Where only does one ingest cholesterol from?

    By eating anything with a brain. Vegans never ingest cholesterol.

    Not true:

    As the following list reveals, in just the last five years, new research has uprooted many of the most widely cherished and long-held beliefs about the relationship between various foods and disease:

    Fiber and Colon Cancer "?no association between the intake of dietary fiber and the risk of colorectal cancer." (NEJM, 1999) (5)

    Eggs and Hypercholesterolemia "? no evidence of an overall significant association between egg consumption and risk of CHD in men or women." (JAMA 1999) (6)

    Sugar and Diabetes "?the most widely held belief about the nutritional treatment of diabetes has been that simple sugars should be avoided and replaced with starches? There is, however, very little scientific evidence that supports this assumption." (Diabetes Care) (7)

    Salt and Hypertension "?although diet can strongly influence blood pressure, salt may not be a player." (Science 1998 ) (8)

    Fat and Breast Cancer " We found no evidence that lower total intake of fat or specific major types of fat was associated with a decreased risk of breast cancer." (JAMA 1999) (9)

    and:

    The incessant preaching of what should and shouldn't be eaten, what disease can be prevented or caused by certain foods, all of which changes regularly with the latest press release, causes people to feel perpetually anxious and guilty about something that should be one of life's greatest pleasures -- eating. What is called for here is a healthy serving of perspective, dished out this time by the editors of the New England Journal of Medicine:

    Although we would all like to believe that changes in diet and lifestyle can greatly improve our health?many if not most such changes will produce only small effects. And the effects may not be consistent. A diet that is harmful to one person may be consumed with impunity by another. (NEJM - 1994 ) (13)

    From:

    http://www.techcentralstation.com/121003C.html

  • asleif_dufansdottir
    asleif_dufansdottir

    Yes I think the PETA people are nuts, but not because of their complaining that animals raised for food often have horrible lives (and deaths). They do.

    I grew up in farm country and hubby and I farmed the first 10 years we were married. "Factory farming" can be pretty awful. And I won't even get started on "packing plants" (slaughterhouses). I've taken cows, pigs and turkeys to them. Funny how most people will get outraged at how dogs and cats are treated in puppy and kitten mills, but not how farm animals kept in the same type of way... (don't get me wrong, puppy and kitten mills should be put out of business)

    I'm not a vegetarian and I'm not opposed to eating meat (I think it's perfectly natural), I just wish I could afford to buy meat that had been humanely raised and killed. I'd buy kosher (which is at least more humanely killed) but I just can't afford it. I wear and use leather and I'd wear fur if I lived way up where it got really cold and the animals were humanely trapped (which they're often not). I'm still conflicted about lab animals...some testing is obviously valuable to humans, but I don't need makeup bad enough for animals to be tortured over it.

    The thing is, PETA is not about vegetarianism or about humane treatment of animals. The thing that gets me is that they don't believe people should even own pets. They don't think anyone should be able to "own" an animal, they think it's morally wrong.

    I find it really frustrating to want to work toward the humane treatment of animals (animal welfare) without getting tangled up with PETA's "humans have no right to 'use' animals" (animal rights) politics. It's almost impossible.

  • SanFranciscoJim
    SanFranciscoJim
    I find them choosing to use Santa in their ad revolting, I could think of many things fummier than dissing Santa.

    Not to come to the defense of PETA (believe me, I'm not!), but considering how the Santa image is thrust upon children during television commercials repeatedly during the holiday season, including some really revolting usage of the persona, I think PETA's exploitation is fairly mild in comparison.

    I will now return to watching my MST3K version of Santa Claus Conquers the Martians.

  • SheilaM
    SheilaM

    Aslief: What keeps me centered is the book The Giver.....the book looks to a world trying to make everything safe and perfect and what the reality of that is.

    People have owned animals for centuries. What would they like a world where dogs and cats are killed cause they are feral???? or they are runny loose biting and becoming rabid????????Reality sucks for extremists doesn't itI hate people that have no grasp of friggin reality. I hate puppy mills and from now on my pets would always be from a shelter. I had no idea how horrible it was until Nic was stolen out of our yard, we have gone to all the shelters and they have such sweet little dogs.

    I found the cutest one named Jughead but he was so aloof he had been in the shelter from birth and can't accept humans it's weird.

    All I know is Moxie would never make it without me, hell it snowed her and she doesn't like her tushy cold so she doesn't want to go outside to go potty. She is trying to hold it until Spring ROFLMAO

  • Enishi
    Enishi

    Although I would like to become a full vegetarian one day, the simply fact of the matter is that I like my meat to much. I agree with most of the arguements presented in favor of becoming a vegan, and I think animals raised for food are treated in an utterly atrocious manner, but my urge to give up meat just isnt that strong.

    However, I have tried to curb my meat intact a good deal. I eat red-meat less, and avoid the more fat-laden meals such as steak. Lately I tend to eat sushi more than any other type of meat. My brother has suggested to me that I should avoid dairy products as well.

  • Thunder Rider
    Thunder Rider

    Do vegans taste like tofu?

    Thunder

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    PETA doesn't seem to be upset that lions eat meat...because they're part of the animal kingdom...well SO ARE HUMANS. Humans are omnivors...we run best when we have a mixed diet...it was eating meat that scientists say gave humans big brains (or so said the Discovery Channel's "Walking with Cavemen").

    I belong to PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals).

    If these nuts showed 1/4 of the concern they have for animals to humans...well, they'd still be nuts...but they'd be helping people...somehow I see a connection between the PETA nuts and the ELF nuts...the PETAELF crowd...burning Burger Kings and Hummers.

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