I conclude evolution is guided (page 51)

cofty

Hadriel almost everything you have written is so muddled it is abundantly clear you do not have the slightest clue about origin of life science.

in very short we're talking about RNA and its condons translating to DNA

I assume you mean codons. RNA in early replicators did not code for DNA. Two simple chemical changes happened - really simple ones - that changed some RNA into DNA. Chemically they are really similar.

LUCA is not contrary to origin of life

I don't know what you mean by that. LUCA is the earliest ancestor of all life. It was already a complex cell that became the ancestor of bacteria, archaea and 2 billion years later eukaryotes. A huge amount of things happened before LUCA existed.

If you can't explain that process you cannot say with anything definitive as to that early bacteria like RNA started chaining and ultimate became DNA.

What do you mean by "bacteria like RNA"? When RNA first formed it was a long time prior to anything we could call bacteria.

Why did you not just say that scientists don't know for sure how chemistry became biology and we would all agree with you and have a productive conversation about the fantastic progress that has been made in recent years?

Instead you spend pages posting self-contradictory statements and using words and phrases that make no sense.

A huge amount is known about the origin of RNA, DNA, proteins, respiration, metabolism and many, many more features of the first cell. I am not going to spend hours describing it to you when you clearly have no interest in the answers and not even a basic understanding of the science. I will recommend a reading list if you like.

cofty

Hadriel I have a proposal for you.

If you are serious about your challenge write out a brief bullet-point list of what you think had to happen stage by stage for life to emerge from chemistry.

Don't copy-paste. You claim to have done a lot of research on this. Just list the steps and which ones you think is most difficult for science to explain.

Hadriel

@cofty hence "bacteria like" but maybe you missed the "like". And yes as a point of reference to make others understand it has been said this way before. Nothing new and certainly not from me.

Again the constant shots to intelligence "don't copy paste". I'm not a dumb person. Disagreeing with you doesn't make me less intelligent than you.

Yes "codons" simply a typo but you had to point that out, again a shot at intelligence.

At no point have I insulted your intelligence in this discussion. Yet you have sent a barrage of subtle shots my way.

For the record I've worked on in whole or part on apps you literally use on your phone/computer. Rather than insult me perhaps you can just say thanks sheesh. Enough with the barbs.

Not contradicting myself but say what you like. I've asked 10 times for you to explain the catalyst, the biochemical "charge" and yes "charge" is used by plenty of professors so maybe you don't understand that word but they certainly do.

Sure on the paper. Whose the independent party assessing the validity and worth of these papers? You're writing one too right? May have to make some time to do it. Not something I'd write in an hour.

I would ask one last time. What caused the biochemical event which made life and evolution even possible? Simple question but you've never even tried to answer it.

Viviane

For the record I've worked on in whole or part on apps you literally use on your phone/computer. Rather than insult me perhaps you can just say thanks sheesh. Enough with the barbs.

Are you like 5 years old or something?

WhatshallIcallmyself

Hadriel,

It is quite clear that you do not understand the subjects of abiogenesis and evolution. It is quite clear based on what you have written on this thread alone. Stating the obvious to you(i.e. you do not understand these subjects) is not insulting your intelligence, it is stating the obvious. That you do not accept that what you have written is, in essence, nonsense further adds to the initial observation that you do not understand these subjects.

Finally, you wrote:

What caused the biochemical event which made life and evolution even possible? Simple question but you've never even tried to answer it

We can't answer a question that is, again, in essence nonsense. This is yet one more observation that demonstrates your utter lack of knowledge in these subjects.

Perhaps it is time for you to go away and reflect on what you actually know rather than asking "clever" gotcha questions that you think are appropriate to a discourse of this nature.

A Ha

I've asked 10 times for you to explain the catalyst, the biochemical "charge" and yes "charge" is used by plenty of professors so maybe you don't understand that word but they certainly do.
I would ask one last time. What caused the biochemical event which made life and evolution even possible? Simple question but you've never even tried to answer it.

I hate to pile on, but a number of people are reading this and I'm not sure anybody understands what you're saying. If I were to think about the phrase 'biochemical charge' I would probably imagine an electric charge, like an imbalance of protons and electrons, but that doesn't seem to be what you're referring to. Honestly, now you sound like you're talking about an elan vital or something, but this is the 21st Century, so that seems unlikely. Is that it? Do you mean the spark of life?

You've been asked many times to clarify what you mean by "charge" and your only answer seems to be "you know... charge," so let's try this. Since plenty of professors use it, could you quote or paraphrase one of them using it in the way you are? I can only imagine a professor of biochemistry talking about ions and electrical charges, but that doesn't seem to fit the discussion.

Asking for the cause of a biochemical event... um... the laws of physics? Ionic and covalent bonding? Probably not a very helpful answer.

2+2=5

I conclude we were all farted into existence by a giant alien anus, and the entire universe in which we now live is just a giant gassy expulsion.

Unlike KateWild, I have watched nearly every episode of Scooby-Doo, so my conclusions are pretty solid.

Ruby456

lol finks

hadriel have you read anything in quantum biology? this is way out of my comfort zone and may incur violation of one of Viv's law - yet it is exciting stuff that you everyone may enjoy and it is very much in the line of work Illya Prigogine pioneered - where is Kate as I think she would enjoy this - here it is in everyday language

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/the-origin-of-life-and-the-hidden-role-of-quantum-criticality-ca4707924552#.693tnvn5g

and here is the more detailed evidence - free of charge

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/626/1/012023/meta

cofty

Sure on the paper. Whose the independent party assessing the validity and worth of these papers? You're writing one too right? May have to make some time to do it. Not something I'd write in an hour. - Hadriel

I didn't ask you to write a paper.

I asked you to very briefly list some bullet points so that I would understand what you think scientists are saying happened at the beginning of life. You claimed to have done extensive research of the topic. It should take about 3 minutes at the very most.

If you do that it will help me and others to understand where some of your words and phrases are coming from - they still make no sense in the way you are using them. I genuinely would like to have a conversation about this but I want to know where to start.

I think you might be talking about the energy requirements of the origin of life? Is it a question about thermodynamics? If so then that is a very good question but you have done a sterling job of avoiding it so far.

Ruby456

re some of the logics of Belief in God via God's eye view external to time and views internal to time often described by those who believe in God, and in ancient myths etc

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/quantum-experiment-shows-how-time-emerges-from-entanglement-d5d3dc850933#.a1jg8dd54

I conclude evolution is guided

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