Was it Designed? (page 4)

TonusOH

Creationists 'accept' micro-evolution because they have no choice. It is so well-known and attested to that to deny it is to enter into flat-Earth territory. Speciation has also been observed, but that isn't drastic enough to convince people who think the 'crocoduck' is a legitimate objection.

Jeffro

Diogenesister:

Watchtower has always believed in micro evolution. They accept "kinds" can adapt to different environments - they just get flaky when it comes to speciation.

Yes, but that doesn’t help them when they say that very specific species that are necessarily the result of evolution —even so-called ‘micro-evolution —must instead have been specifically designed rather than just adapted to their environments. ‘Kind’ has no meaning in taxonomy, and some unique feature in a specific species that isn’t generally present in that ‘kind’ obviously wasn’t ‘designed’ if it instead arose through adaptation to a particular environment.

budbayview

“The Cat, the Rat and the Parasite”. I found this fascinating as I am unable to generate a suitable argument for how this would have “evolved” in the absence of a Creator or how this parasitic behavior could be developed without an intentional design. The parasite in this instance would need to have prior knowledge of two species and their inherent behavior with each other for a reproducible, sustainable, life cycle. The parasite actually modifies the rats behavior or fear mechanisms, totally cool, but not an iterative process.

What say you, am I missing something in my parasite argument?

Some reading on the parasite if you like to nerd out.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1690701/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1286457901014599

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2013.13777

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-parasite-that-makes-a-rat-love-a-cat-86515093/

Jeffro

budbayview:

I am unable to generate a suitable argument for how this would have “evolved” in the absence of a Creator or how this parasitic behavior could be developed without an intentional design.

The short version is that toxoplasmosis (genus Toxoplasma) affects many types of cells, but once a variant (T.gondii) happened to adapt that affected rat behaviour in a way that makes that variation spread more, it inherently makes that variation of toxoplasmosis much more successful. No ‘knowledge of species behaviour’ is necessary at all.

Conversely, arguing that it was intentionally designed by a ‘creator’ is all kinds of messed up.

budbayview

Jeffro:

So it is not that simple, you need to explain the variant rate of change, relative to extinction. Your model doesn't work for this.

"Conversely, arguing that it was intentionally designed by a ‘creator’ is all kinds of messed up." Statements like this are sophomoric, that is why you can not have good discussion on this site.

Jeffro

I really don’t need to explain that at all. I provided the principle involved. I’m under no obligation to explain it in detail. It’s funny how creationists just assert that ‘god did a magic thing’, but they expect everyone else to be an expert in genetics. 🤣

MeanMrMustard

@budbayview: Sounds like a version of the "irreducibly complex" argument.

Jeffro

budbayview:

you need to explain

You need to explain specifically what God is without deferring to vague undefined terms such as ‘spirit’, and provide verifiable details about how it interacts with the physical universe (not lame poetry about God being love or similar claptrap, actual science). Remember, no ‘sophomoric’ responses.

Sea Breeze

A study of Darwin's finches, which live on the Galapagos Islands in the Pacific Ocean, has revealed direct genetic evidence that new species can arise in just two generations.

Vidiot

Diogenesister - “…Watchtower has always believed in microevolution…”

I don’t recall them ever saying that.

If they ever officially accepted it, they’d keep it on the way-down-low…

…it’d be a red pill they wouldn’t like swallowing.

Was it Designed?

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