Exjw activists protesting inside a Kingdom Hall today!

by Crazyguy 110 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • HBH

    Agree with BK's assessment from being there. These are some points I think should be taken into consideration.

    On top of being disorganized, many are highly emotional. This adds to it being disjointed.

    IMO, I think they are justified in disrupting the meeting for purely selfish and cathartic reasons (you tube aside). I base this on the principle of silencing/not believing allegations of abuse. This can drive people over the edge. I would expect to see more of this as more people exit, and would presume the videos alone could play a part in some waking up.

    Add the two witness rule, to witnesses don't lie, and the kid has an active imagination, and abuse is silenced. So, yes this organization is so destructive that it deserves no respect.


  • Ruby456

    thebrokenkite thanks for explaining - yours is a perfectly reasonable approach.

  • steve2

    One of the protesters on the video mentioned seeing some JW lady crying in the kingdom hall , perhaps a couple JW's crying.

    Their peaceful meeting was unexpectedly disrupted by protesters.

    Although I agree no one but the ones who were crying can know for absolutely certain what provoked the crying, let's consider the context and in particular, the audience not knowing exactly what the protesters would do next. Under that kind of perceived threatening context, crying is symptomatic of fear and apprehension. Check any textbook on human reactions to threat, and crying is one symptom among many.

    To suggest that, because we do not know for absolutely certain what provoked the crying, we should not make a link to the most obvious immediate cause - sudden disruption of a peaceful meeting - is naïve at best and mischievous at worst.

    As first responders to traumatic incidents know all too well, many victims cry.

  • sparrowdown

    I watched the video of the so -called crying woman in close up. No one was crying no one ffs.

  • thebrokenkite

    @nacho Sanchez I’ll indulge what has now become your “elder tangent”, but I think you’re reading a lot more into my comments than I intended to leave open for interpretation. I went back and can’t find an insinuation that Parker and Joel were elders. In fact, I specifically mentioned not knowing what Joel’s responsibilities were in the congregation. I’m also having trouble finding a quote saying the ringleaders acted like elders. I did say the disorganization was surprising considering the amount of alleged elders. Keep in mind you only a few to run a congregation. Perhaps my segue into my interactions with the ringleaders was abrupt and I apologize if it left things murky. Regarding the mannerisms and idiosyncrasies, I mentioned that they were unique to JWs, and included myself among those still displaying them. I did not limit them to elders.

    https://www.dropbox.com/m/browse?path=%2F11-5-17+Warwick+Protest Here’s a link with pictures I took. Again, I cannot find my comments stating we should wear suits. I wore jeans, an untucked button-up, and a sweater. I was comfortable but was careful to dress in a way that wouldn’t distract JWs trained to judge folks on account of such superfluous reasons. Looking like you’re headed for a jog or comic con really can’t bolster your message, I think we’ll agree.

    Lastly, as I mentioned before, I had no idea who any of the apostates were before Sunday, including Parker. That was my first impression, which I’d be happy to correct should I meet him again and fee differently. However, I currently stand by my first impression and it is not one exclusive to me. If we were all pushing our own individual agendas, I should’ve also handed out free prints of my photos to help my business. I, perhaps naïvely, that the group was gathering for different purposes.

  • sparrowdown

    Honestly, this whole thing is a storm in a teacup overly sensationalized by people that didn't go. If it was such a big deal the police would have arrested someone or at least spoken sternly but no, nothing, nada. I think the guys at Warwick were hoping for some kind of "storm the castle" scenario but truth is nothing any where near that happened. Just a modest "protest" -(if you can call it that, I 've seen scarier behavior at after xmas sales) by a handful of ex members. So what!

  • Nacho Sanchez
    Nacho Sanchez

    TheBrokenKite - It's not my elder tangent, it's yours. You were the one who brought up "elders" and keep mentioning it. I take it I need to quote you to refresh your memory. Here goes:

    I know it was the first time for this protest, but for so many alleged former elders to neglect the most basic arrangements seemed a bit puzzling.

    For context you were speaking about how it should have been an "easy hurdle to reduce by dressing the part". It is true that you didn't say people should "wear suits", here we have this quote. Question: How do you "dress the part" of a JW and not wear a suit. Just because you didn't come out and use the verbiage "wear suits" makes it untrue that you suggested apostates dress like JWs? Back to the "elder tangent" - Your use of "so many former alleged elders" is troubling based on your last comment. Again, who were the "elders"? These are your words, not mine.

    Honestly, I would love to help with something like this in the future but it’s basically an elders club.

    Now you use the label of "elders" again and didn't specify any targets, so I am to assume you mean the whole of the group? How again was it an "elders club", and no I am not reading too much into your comments. You called the protest an "elders club" and now you are keen to backtrack off your previous comments. So if I am getting you straight here, you are a newbie apostate who arrived with "fairly low expectations". Your expectations didn't seem too low as it turned out, because you labelled several people and possibly the group itself as either "elders: or an "elders club". Your first impression after visiting your first apostate event was this:

    Everyone rolled in shortly before the start and I found it amusing that most of the ringleaders are still very much JWs

    That might have been a good time to turn around and call it off if you felt that strongly. But I digress, perhaps you hadn't given up on them entirely yet despite your low expectations. Question: Could your "low expectations" have colored your viewpoint of the event and whom you perceived as their leaders before even meeting them? Wait, you probably don't have to answer that.

    Some, though out, would still humble brag about the heights they reached while still active, which I found amusing and an incredible testament to the power of the JW mind control

    Here the term "elders" is not used, but the effect is still the same. You have effectively repeated yourself again in labelling people as JWs and elders. Again this is where details would have greatly aided your story. Who bragged about what heights they achieved while still in the organization? Being an elder? Or was it something more specific to being an elder? Again, your words and not mine.

    Whether it’s politically correct, or not, some apostates would help more by staying home or using different methods to advocate, as theirs are often counterproductive.

    And yet here you were, attending an apostate protest at Warwick and not staying home. I'm guessing that you know better than these "some apostates" and your advice seems to be to dress the part (i.e. JW approved dress), act appropriately at a protest, and bring professionally made signs. You are welcome to your opinion and I look forward to you showing us this approved method in the future.

    The apostate movement also needs more folks that are relatable, likeable, and had enough clout within the organization to legitimize the movement and its testimonies

    So what do you mean by "enough clout" in the organization? Would that be an elder or someone with even more clout? I thought you were advocating against this mentality. Problem is, the more clout you once had in the organization, the less likely you are going to be "likable" and "relatable".

    OK, enough talking for now.

  • redvip2000
    Also, using cuss words and smoking on the video does not help their cause to get JW to sympathize with them, and the deception they used to disrupt the meeting and startle everyone there subtracts from anything good they intended to do.

    Have to agree here. I recall one of the protestors calling one elder "window washer" or similar. There is another thread about protesting at Warwick were a poster complains of bad behavior by ex-JWs. This stuff doesn't help.

    The worse is that, say you have a group of 10 activists, it only takes 1 idiot to make the whole group look bad.

  • thebrokenkite

    @Nacho Sanchez I can see where you’re coming from and will be careful to make more obvious transitions in the future. In the end, I was there. Your ongoing defense of the group or certain ones in it based on my initial impression of them without you having experienced the thing in its entirety or have interacted with the group is confusing and makes me wonder whether you have a dog in this fight. I went exactly as a curious newbie apostate (which has already been established) looking to take pictures and perhaps network. I have also said I don’t regret going and that it provided some clarity as to the type of activism I want to engage in. In any case, this back and forth has grown tired and I hope you’ll agree. Again, I feel I’ve already addressed the points in question and will take greater care to avoid statements that verge on sweeping ones in the future. I think we can call however’s -1-ing all the posts offering valid criticisms of the protest off. 😉

  • _Morpheus

    No kite, trust and believe that people “disliking” posts that hurt their feelings will continue. Its a badge of honor to have some disagree with you.

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