Awake #4/2016: Homosexuality

by Designer Stubble 174 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • slimboyfat

    Homophobia is on a level with racism and sexism in my view. All of which can be supported by using the Bible incidentally.

    People who argue that homophobia is okay as long as it's stated in a mild manner are missing the point. If a church was really polite and used lots of scripture would it be acceptable to promote racism? I don't think so. Polite and mild doesn't cut it. Racism is racism. Homophobia is homophobia.

    Society doesn't view homophobia exactly as racism yet, but the direction of travel is abundantly clear. We are in a transition period where homophobic views are tolerated in the name of religious tolerance. The exact same thing happened with civil rights. The Mormon church was openly racist until 1978! But societal changes win out in the end.

  • slimboyfat

    sir82 Westboro number less than 100 I believe (they are essentially a cranky family more than a religion). I'm talking about religious groups included in the survey. JWs are by far the most homophobic. See the chart.

  • rebelfighter


    Very excellent post. I was never a JW but I believe you are 100% correct. I firmly believe they should post a sign that says straight MEN only, NO kids, women, or gays.

    At least here and in most parts of the world blacks won the right to be treated as equals, then women won the right to be treated as equals, gays are no different and when you beat up a child by spanking them you are a bully. I never touched my children to correct their behavior they are very polite young adults .They are now 30 and 24. IMHO These JW men are nothing but a bunch of bullies.

    I will give you an example my daughter is tiny but she knows right from wrong. When she was in high school, little as she was not even 5' less then 100 pounds watched the huge captain of the football team try to butt his way into the cafeteria line in front of a special needs child saying something that was not nice. She put him in his place and told him to go to the end of the line where he belonged calling the assistant principal over.

  • The Rebel
    The Rebel

    Maybe a % of American / English evangelicals and 1.6 Muslims do indeed say otherwise, but isn't it marvelous that numbers and statistics can change. If I were to speculate, I think more and more " church" members and " Muslims" PERSONALLY do not think as the religion dictates.

    Where the hell were tolerant people in the U.K re homosexuality in the 1960s? And where were Leicester City football club?

    Now in 2016 Leicester city has won the English football league,which was  impossible before the season started. However the desire of the players made it happen. And this is my theory, the way homosexuals are victoried by governments, and religious organisations based on prejudice from a past religious " authority" is now over two thousand years old.

    So I say a high % of both the younger generation of Christians and Muslims in England won't tolerat this. I say this because the trend has been challenged, minds have been opened. Why do I feel so positive about this? Well I believe we will soon have for the first time Muslim footballers making it in the English football league. How can this happen? I believe it will happen because Muslim culture in the U.K is more intergrated and society more open,therefore  tolerance of conditiond religiose thinking less tolerated.

    Ok what I say seems silly, but I believe the power of religion to judge a person by sexuality in the U.K has weakened. This is the only positive I have of my favorite sport " football" which is now sadly not a sport but a business in the U.K. Because in my opinion what will take power over religion is " as bad" the power of gambling, Every advertisement is about betting and every loser the " Muslim" or " Christian" that falls for this " new religion. Yes the world is a big place,MONEY is what rules it. Religion has lost that power, big business and gambling don't give a shit about sexuality.

    This is my vision for the future in the U.K, ethics and morals right or wrong have no meaning, but " you bet . Com" is the new God.

    The Rebel.

  • M*A*S*H

    @Cofty. If you are not excusing anything why would you post this...

    If you label the Watchtower's position as hateful or homophobic how do you describe this...?

    Which is an attempt to say we should not label the WTBS as homophobic because they do not throw homosexuals from tall buildings. Then further evidence of 'excusing' WTBS you posted...

    My point is that characterising the Watchtower as hateful and homophobic seems a bit heavy in comparison.

    It seems pretty clear to me what you mean. But, once again, I'll ask. 'Cofty, do you think the WBTS is a homophobic organisation'? A simple yes or no will do.

  • M*A*S*H

    @ slimboyfat

    Thanks for the PEW link.

    Interestingly the tab regarding tolerance of homosexuality shows a jump of 12% in 2007 to 16% in 2014 of supposed Witnesses choosing the option 'homosexuality should be accepted' (a 33% jump). The mormons managed a 50% jump up 24% to 36%.

  • steve2

    Well considered posts on the topic, SBF!

  • scotsman
    Thanks SBF.
  • cofty
    People who argue that homophobia is okay as long as it's stated in a mild manner are missing the point - SBF

    I have never seen anybody argue that. I have certainly never suggested it.

    Homophobia is on a level with racism and sexism in my view

    All three are morally bad. All three are also subject to degrees of error.

    If they were inclined to do so they could certainly make an argument for allowing homosexual marriage.

    And they could appoint women elders, or they could scrap the archaic idea that wives should be in subjection to husbands. They could tell single people that it was ok to have sex before marriage. They could adopt transubstantiation if they were inclined to do so.

    All of these things will never happen. It would cost them a significant percentage of their membership - and they genuinely believe the bible is authoritative in these matters.

    Racism is racism. Homophobia is homophobia


    Is expressing a sincerely held belief that the bible condemns homosexual acts just as egregious as throwing a gay man off a tall building?

    There is a lot of binary thinking on this topic.

    MASH - will get back to you later.

  • rebelfighter


    And they could appoint women elders, or they could scrap the archaic idea that wives should be in subjection to husbands.

    Yes, they most definitely could it is the 21st century other religions have done just that. My best girlfriend is the Elder of Finance. Her husband treats her as an equal in their marriage.

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