Sudden General Election in UK to be held June 8th 2017

by freddo 167 Replies latest social current

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    There was no appetite for Scottish independence in the 70s.

    The SNP certainly polled well in 1974. Whether there was "appetite" or not is beside the point. (It's true that Scotland is much nearer indepdence now than it was then.)

    The point is that the UK government feared Scottish independence and went to great lengths to conceal North Sea oil revenue and Scotland's potential as an indepdenent country. Now we can actually read it in government documents in black and white.

    While in public the government played down North Sea oil, in private their report advised:

    The country [an independent Scotland] would tend to be in chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe, with the exception perhaps of the Norwegian kroner. Just as deposed monarchs and African leaders have in the past used the Swiss franc as a haven of security, so now would the Scottish pound be seen as a good hedge against inflation and devaluation and the Scottish banks could expect to find themselves inundated with a speculative inflow of foreign funds.

    http://www.oilofscotland.org/mccronereport.pdf

    The report was kept secret for 30 years.

    In 1974, McCrone wrote a now-famous report for ministers predicting Scotland would become "as rich as Switzerland" if it controlled North Sea oil - a prediction that was kept from voters.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13159881.Exclusive__McCrone_2__

    secret_report_which_advised_Westminster_to_set_up_oil_fund/

    Dennis Healey who was chancellor in the 1970s said:

    I think we did underplay the value of the oil to the country because of the threat of nationalism but that was mainly down to Thatcher.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/2013/may/29/scottish-independence-oil-healey

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    You're saying that unionists from Labour voted for the Tories, in order to keep the SNP out.

    Why does it sound ridiculous? I guess, possibly if you know nothing about Scottish politicts, it might sound ridiculous.

    Labour, Lib Dem and Tory activists have organised tactical voting against the SNP ever since the 2014 referendum. Quite openly. Labour activists share graphics on twitter and Facebook to show which seats you are better off voting Tory or Lib Dem than Labour.

    See the 2015 "wheel" that was going round.

    http://billcameron.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/in-scotland-vote-tactically-in-may-2015.html

    Kedia Dugdale the Scottish Labour leader indicated her top priority when she said the Tories had a better chance than Labour of beating SNP in some parts of Scotland in this election.

    https://youtu.be/S4se0PRjCSw

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    EU is just a way for a few states (France, Germany) to get rich on the back of smaller satellite states.

    Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Ireland and Sweden are all wealthier than Germany. And Austria, Denmark and Belgium are wealthier than France.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita


  • hothabanero
    hothabanero

    @Slimboyfat: You don't get it. This isn't about what the countries want, but what the globalists calling the shots in the undemocratic EU want. These countries you mention currently benefit from the scam but at some point they too will be on the chopping block. The elite will be rich, as will the elite in Scotland, but the countries will effectively loose their independence (control of internal policies bc of debt and control of borders bc of EU immigration).

    Why should any sane person wish to be part of this?

  • freddo
    freddo

    @Slimboyfat

    The SNP got 7 MP's in the first 1974 election and 11 in the October 1974 election ...

    Not that well considering oily stuff was pouring in from the North Sea.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Yes thanks to the first past the post electoral system, 11 seats on 30% of the vote, second pace to Labour with 41 seats on 36%.

    Anyway the point isn't how close to winning they were (which was pretty close anyway) the point is that the UK government were scared enough of the "SNP threat" to suppress the reality of North Sea oil revenue at the time and misinform the public.

  • notsurewheretogo
    notsurewheretogo
    the point is that the UK government were scared enough of the "SNP threat" to suppress the reality of North Sea oil revenue at the time and misinform the public.

    No that is not the point now is it? It has no relevance to the 18 year old voting in Scotland for NOW and the next 5 years. As I said what has happened in the past does not matter because the case of independence and oil revenue is now dependent on different factors in different circumstances.

    To be fair...as a person who does not agree with the SNP and I side on unionists, I voted tactically against the SNP and I know many did too.

    And it worked. But as SBF advises you need to be aware of the current political climate and feelings in Scotland to understand this.

    I guess it does sound weird to not vote for the party you want but the party who will most likely displace the SNP in your area. But it is the reason why Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson are out of a job...that and well other reasons that I'll keep to myself.

    SBF, you still haven't answered my question, you raise all other points and they are good points but still can't answer my fundamental question.

    If we go independent now and lose money from the subsidy from the rest of the UK via the Barnett Formula and add in the fact oil revenue has gone for good how do we cope with a massive drop in income? How do we address the £15 billion deficit? WITHOUT extreme austerity measures since SNP say its wrong to do so.

    Where is the money going to come from to keep Children Hospitals running if we remove billions of income from the UK given that we are overspending by £1,000 per person WITH that income from the UK at the moment? I understand your point about relying on the UK for the future but you still have not answered this question.

    I tell you, if the SNP just answered that, gave evidence with facts and figures that we can do it then they would win the hearts and minds of the Scottish people.

    It's the one thing they can do and it would almost certainly make independence real and not just a possibility but a reality.

    But we know the reason why they haven't to date when it is the one thing they could do to achieve independence...

    Because there is no way to do it without massive austerity measures, tax rises, cuts to public spending and cuts to all the current perks we enjoy.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/03/14/five-charts-show-economically-risky-scottish-independence-would/

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/13/scottish-economy-independence-referendum-oil-price

    Do you realize this is the main reason why many do not side with the SNP even though they would love to see independence?

  • Laika
    Laika

    The queen's speech is being delayed as the Tories need more time to work on a deal with the DUP, also...

    "One of the reasons for the delay is also believed to be because the speech has to be written on goat's skin parchment paper, which takes a few days to dry - and the Tory negotiations with the DUP mean it cannot be ready in time." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40243782 - what!?

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