At what point, does one become apostate to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Pallbearer

    Up above, nicolaou quoted blondie as having said:

    The WTS notes that the minor children of the people who died at the flood died forever.

    Then nicolaou replied:

    Hi blondie. I don't doubt you are being accurate but do you have any references for this? Thanks.

    I am certain that blondie spoke accurately. As far back as I can remember, the WTS has never held out any hope for ANYONE that died in the Flood of Noah’s day, nor for ANYBODY that dies at Armageddon. In contrast, the Watchtower cites biblical evidence that there is hope for the peoples of Sodom and Gomorrah, that they will be resurrected. Personally, I find it extremely difficult to accept the WTS’s view, because children in particular have never committed anything as gross as what the peoples of Sodom and Gomorrah had practiced.

  • Vidiot

    @ Pallbearer

    I’m not exaggerating.

    I don’t have the book on hand at the moment, but there’s plenty of PDF copies available at different locations around the net. Feel free to check.

    And there is absolutely a section which describes how - for all intents and purposes - thinking the GB is wrong about something technically constitutes apostasy. They may phrase it in “theocratic” terminology, but make no mistake, that’s what it means.

    It’s been discussed here more than once.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    Beware of elders ''sheppharding gifts'' allright,

    There was an elders somewhere who disclosed that in the ""Shepphard the Flock'' book the elders usually come in groups of 2,,,in order to sniff-out ''apostate''' thoughts or ''doubts''.

    Be extremely 'wary', when elders offer 'encouragement'' or a 'visit' with you . Just dodge them, or don't' be home.

    There is an 'ulterior' motive behind the visit. Not much good can come of it.

  • Fisherman

    To JW, after you are adjudicated by a JC.

  • BluesBrother

    What is an apostate? When his Elders judge him so.

    If you are lucky and have got a more reasonable man who doesn’t want to do a JC anyway, you may get away with questioning the beliefs , if you do so politely.

    Another Bof E may take a dim view of your failure to toe the line and see you as a danger to the cong. Of course if you have the sort of dub family that rat you out and complain about what you say at home - you are done for…..

  • resolute Bandicoot
    resolute Bandicoot

    Apostate - Also known as a whistle blower.


  • LongHairGal

    At what point? It seems to me that any questioning or disagreement with anything the JW religion currently teaches is ‘apostasy’ in somebody’s eyes there. The key here is if you go around blabbing it.

    But, with the current paranoia there, if you are ‘faded’ and tell somebody there you don’t want to go back because of this, that or the other thing - they could view you as *gasp* an apostate or at the very least ‘not upbuilding’.

    I might be facing a situation like this (I don’t really care because I’ve been Out for so long). I have gotten to the point that I can no longer humor JWs and will be honest and voice my disagreement. Whereas in the past I might have kept quiet.. They cannot accept this.. If I finally lose these long time ‘friends’, so be it. At this point, I am not bothering to beat the dead horse.

  • Foolednomore

    This is Watchtower and Jw's thing. They and their views don't concern me. I'm not part of their bullshit.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Q.: At what point, does one become apostate to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses?

    A.: When cognition begins.

  • blondie

    Notice that the WTS does use a weasel word "apparently." The WTS has disavowed that a similar "executional judgment was passed on Sodom and Gomorrah, flipping back and forth several times.

    WT 1965 3/15 p. 166

    Speaking of Noah’s day, 2 Peter 3:6, 7 says: “The world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water. But by the same word [of God] the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.” Apparently there is no hope of a resurrection for those dying in that executional flood.

    WT Sep 2022 p.16

    The third group comprises the goats, who will be destroyed at Armageddon. Their names are not in the book of life. Jesus says that they “will depart into everlasting cutting-off.” (Matt. 25:46) Under inspiration, Paul tells us that “these very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction.” (2 Thess. 1:9; 2 Pet. 2:9) The same could be said of those who, down through time, have deliberately sinned against the holy spirit. They too receive everlasting destruction, not everlasting life. Clearly, they will not be resurrected. (Matt. 12:32; Mark 3:28, 29; Heb. 6:4-6) Let us now take a closer look at two groups of people who will be resurrected on earth.

    (the issue is here what is a “judgment period” as defined by the WTS.) What was the most recent statement about Sodom and Gomorrah and people dying there when fire rained down on them during Lot’s day)

    While the WTS has disavowed the people of Sodom not being resurrected for now, no where does the WTS say that the people who died in the flood will be resurrected. That is how to look at WT info, not just what they say, but what they don’t say.

    WT July 15 2005 p. 31

    Those who are judged unworthy of a resurrection are pitched into “Gehenna,” or “the lake of fire.” (Matthew 5:22; Mark 9:47, 48; Revelation 20:14) Among these would be the first human pair, Adam and Eve, the betrayer Judas Iscariot, and certain ones who died when God executed judgment upon them, such as the people in Noah’s day and the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah.a

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