Truth, Justice, and the American Way

by D8TA 85 Replies latest social current

  • D8TA
    D8TA

    Ah yes, the ?truth??and not by the standards of one publishing company in which we all here share something in common with.

    As I?ve sat silently for months, browsing this board on occasion, and I still can?t believe there are people here who blind themselves with ?patriotism? with the U.S. as they once did with Watch Tower.

    Here is a hard fact: The U.S. is one (if not ?THE?) most powerful and richest nations on this planet. It did not rise to this height with total honesty and/or nobility. The U.S. rose to power by a number of methods that included the exploitation and deaths of people around this planet. They also have initiated a number sanctions in it?s history that did not benefit the sanctioned country (nor aided it to ?democracy?), and such sanctions were/are utilized to gain a firmer control of such countries. Sanctions that caused death to hundred of thousands (if not millions) of people. Illegal and Legal arms sales that have caused death to hundred of thousands of people.

    This is a FACT some here need to get into there heads. The more you respond with your nobility, justice, and ?The American Way? argument?the more of an idiot you are making yourself into.

    There 3 categories of people here:

    Those Who Support America and are Content with the Current System.

    Those Who Support America and are not Content and Want Change.

    Those Who Can Care Less.

    I will only address the first category of people; some who sit in complete ignorance and defend the actions of a nation with out question.

    Take responsibility for your countries actions. If you sit and type your ?U.S. is #1? and ?we are the greatest??. take responsibility for your support. Quit your whining about ?America Bashing?. Sorry kiddies, your country exploits and kills other fellow human beings around the world, expect to be bashed. Don?t expect that when your country punches somebody in the nose, or pays somebody else to do it for them, that the rest of the world wont retaliate. Be it the U.S. or ANY country!

    Now, it has been PROVEN that the U.S. has engaged in actions (presently and historically) that have solely benefited U.S. interests. If this doesn?t sit well with you when you are presented with this, then tough titties, it?s a fact. Your ignorance doesn?t shield you from people who wish to retaliate against the U.S. (and it?s interests) when it shares responsibility in destroying homes, families, and social structures.

    Are such people justified when retaliating? I don?t know. But I do know this; they are as justified in retaliation as the U.S. is in its provocation. Again, if you punch somebody in the nose to gain something solely for yourself, don?t expect that the person wont strike back.

    I liken it to a schoolyard bully. Sure he pushes and beats some of the kids at times, and at other times he helps those who honor him. That fact is, he is still a bully.

    I give America and F in the school of Global Relations.

    Why?

    Because the U.S. and the people who do currently support it?s system, ?don?t work and play well with others?.

    Solution? Choice. It?s your choice if you want to change policy in your country. It?s whether you want to do it or not. Get involved with local politics, go and find resources and/or programs that support your view of whatever issue needs to be adjusted. But if you are a person who is content with the system the U.S. has, goes to work, comes home, and does nothing else but?then take the heat and responsibility for your lack of action.

    Sure you have your ?Freedom of Speech? in which I support, just remember: If you stick your head in the sand and defend and issue you don?t fully understand or deliberately defend with ignorance, you are making yourself look like an idiot.

  • Aztec
    Aztec
    Those Who Support America and are not Content and Want Change.

    Put me down in that category. It would be nice to move down to South America though.

    *waits patiently for someone to call D8TA a terrorist supporter*

    ~Aztec

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    D8TA,

    Excellent, excellent, excellent post. I agree 100% with everything you said.

    Yes, it's amazing -- no, truly ASTOUNDING -- that people who broke free from a cultish indoctrination system like the JWs could be so blinded by nationalism and historical revisionism. The sad thing is that I KNOW some of the "right-wingers" here are much smarter than that. Perhaps that is why they have been indoctrinated so well. (Just like the dubs -- the most brainwashed are those who, like me, took it seriously and were among the "elite")

    Change is coming....the more and more people speak out...the greater and greater the gap between rich and poor...the increase in US atrocities....change will come.

    Bradley

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism

    I think the history of the United States has some things that we should be deeply ashamed of. I think that we've improved significantly, but I don't think our hands are completely clean yet. And I don't think that any politician or political party is completely clean, either. Clinton is just as guilty of ignoring Saudi human rights abuses as the Bushes, after all.

    But I'm an optimist. I think that, on the whole, our domestic politics and international relations are becoming more ethical, however slowly. And while I don't think we can be complacent about it, I do believe that process will continue.

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    All of these "FACTS" and yet, not one element of documentation.

    Is the US perfect? Of course not. No country is. Neither is it Lily White in the sense of totally innocent. But, who is? The US is better for me, but I do not degrade another's country. I've visited several and if I found a better one, I'd be living there. For the most part, when it comes right down to it, people are people, all over. Cultures may change from locality to locality, but the people are nearly always the same.

    I fail to see loving my country as akin to blind allegiance to the Watchtower. Just because one supports a conservative platform does not make them brain-dead, any more than one supporting a liberal platform does. However, I do see the claims by some on either side of this as intellectually dishonest and degrading. Demonizing those who do not agree with you is something straight out of the Watchtower, in my opinion.

    The US is and has been an ever-changing society since it's inception. Not all changes have been good for it, I believe, and should be repealed. Other changes need to come yet. Regardless of who is in power, changes constantly come to our society. Abraham Lincoln, a renowned Republican President, said it best, I believe; "I like to see man proud of the place in which he lives. I like to see a man who lives in it so that his place will be proud of him"

    For me, the leftist moves towards Socialism is folly, at the least, and dangerous at worst. Everywhere that form of governing has been tried, it has failed due to robbing the citizens of their desire to better themselves. Only the elite ruling class benefits, as evidenced by the failure of the Soviet Union. This does not mean the left should have no input at all. Without it, no one could move towards the center, where I believe most people are.

    Denigrating one?s own country without contributing to its betterment is what I perceive as pandering. Changes need to be made and changes will be made as America continues growing. A return to what our forefathers fled from and fought for independence from defeats the entire reason for the founding of this country.

    It isn?t perfect and it isn?t better than the rest. But, the rest aren?t either.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    During my recent visit to the States, I found the people to be just as realistic about their country as we are about ours. Some things good, some things bad and some patriotism thrown in, but not too much.

    This is the key, well surmised by Dakota:

    Denigrating one?s own country without contributing to its betterment is what I perceive as pandering . Changes need to be made and changes will be made as America continues growing. A return to what our forefathers fled from and fought for independence from defeats the entire reason for the founding of this country.

    It's easy to sit on the sidelines and criticise. If we don't like what's going on in our own countries then we should attempt to make positive changes.

    Englishman.

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    D8TA,

    Let's talk...I think we can all agree that the US is not perfect. After admitting that in my own heart...I want you to point out to me one single country that does it better! If the United States receives an "F" in world relations...who has a better score...and what is your criteria for that judgement?

    The US has indeed exploited the American Indian and the African slave...but who else have we exploited and how...who have we sanctioned without a valid reason solely to gain a choke hold? Specifically, in your life time...who has been exploited by the US and how???

    Keeping this civil...but putting your feet to the fire on this one...

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Good God Yeru,

    The US has indeed exploited the American Indian and the African slave...but who else have we exploited and how...who have we sanctioned without a valid reason solely to gain a choke hold? Specifically, in your life time...who has been exploited by the US and how???

    How about the 3 million dead Vietnamese? What about the mass-slaughter in East Timor -- which also numbered into the millions -- in the 1970's which the US turned a blind eye to (and even funded!!) ? Not to mention practically the whole of South America....(Nicaragua, Haiti.....and so on). Sweat shops around the globe owned by US corporations -- the government couldn't care less.

    Just the tip of the iceburg.

    Please. Yeru, you are amazing.

    B.

  • Simon
    Simon

    While I vote conservative, there is a need for a certain amount of "socialism" or social responsibility. Without this, the poor and less advantaged become disenfranchised from society and extreme wealth is concentrated with just a few people which can lead to corruption and more suffering for the normal workers who rely on the system being honest for their retirement etc ...

    This is exactly what is happening in the USA today. Sure, you have a great country and a lot of wealth but also some extreme poverty and people who are just thrown on the scrap heap.

    Sorry, but ffor me this doesn't quite cut it as being civilised.

    And before the usual suspects start with the chants of "ooh, your a communist leftie" etc... I do not believe that total socialism works anymore than total capitalism does. What is needed is balance and at the moment, this is severely lacking.

    There is too much dishonesty, too much corruption, too much self-interest in wealth and not enough emphasis on peace and truly supporting those less well off (frequently because of our policies) as well as creating a better, safer and ecologically supportable world for our childen.

    As I've said before, I've no problem with anyone saying "I love my country" but if you say "my country is the best" then you are also saying that other countries are not as good. This is never the case. Every country is going to be better at something.

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Not to mention that the US is the number one polluting nation in the world. Killing us slowly.

    B.

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