Christmas arrogance

by stillin 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DesirousOfChange

    It's no different than the blood ban.

    It separates JW's from the masses.

    WT wants them to be separate and to feel "persecuted" as a result.

    At the same time, it makes them feel "more-righteous" because everyone else fails to see these things as wrong. Thus, Joe Hoover will favor JW's over everyone else.

  • myelaine

    It's completely different than the blood ban.

    As the israel of God, His people are called out of the world. We're to separate ourselves as a holy nation unto God...following Jesus and worshipping in spirit and truth.

    There is no truth in the blood ban, and it doesn't matter what kind of mental gymnastics the WT does, they're not following a biblical precept in spirit either. The blood ban is a completely manufactured testament to their self-righteousness NOT the righteousness of God.

  • stillin

    Really, I think that people do, or DON'T do, things based on how they personally feel about things. I can respect why people observe Christmas and I can equally respect those who don't. I would only ask that there be some thought given, some consideration, of the other position.

    But to categorically dismiss ALL who celebrate Christmas as simple-minded pagans is arrogant. I know. I was there.

  • unsure

    Respectfully, there is not much evidence of Jesus existence outside of the Bible so whether he is portrayed as a baby does not matter either way. Go with the flow and take the story for it's greater message.

  • fulltimestudent

    Xmas is not a celebration of either a baby jesus or a mature jesus. Xmas is a celebration of an elderly, gift bearing old man, with long white whiskers, dressed in a red suit,

    In any case, why would anyone want to celebrate the birth of a want-to-be mass murderer?

  • Finkelstein

    DOC says .....

    At the same time, it makes them feel "more-righteous" because everyone

    else fails to see these things as wrong.

    That hits the nail on the head .

    Ask a JWS why they dont cerebrate Xmas and they will regurgitate how pagan it is .

    Dies Natalis Solis Invicti means 'birthday of the unconquered sun' and was held on December 25th when the Romans thought the Winter Solstice took place.

    OK fair enough

    But wait there was a great celebration of the baby Jesus when he was born.

    JWS lament that birthday celebrating is a man made pagan tradition, yet in the bible John the Baptist is said to be attending a birthday celebration, so maybe it wasn't frowned upon by the early Christians.

    Either way I think all devout Christians should be left to how they celebrate Christmas to whatever level and the WTS heads should not have condemn the entire social activity for JWS members but then again there is that we are arrogantly more righteous than other practicing Christians..

    As with many if not all religious groups led by a controlling hierarchy (ie. GB), they are in constant endeavor to find ways to control people for their own appealing self empowerment.

  • Phoebe

    Yesterday I watched a television programme about the origins of many Xmas traditions. Carols, the tree, mistletoe, holly etc. The Victorians wanted to bring back Xmas because it was dying out in Britain so they started picking what they wanted from traditional customs from everywhere -a lot from Germany. The turkey came from America.

    Half of it, isn't really pagan. No one really knows how mistletoe and holly began. Carols were sung throughout the year in church. In fact, there are more identifiable pagan customs associated with weddings than ever there is with Xmas and JWs do all of them except confetti and the toast.

    It is just another way they have isolated us from family and friends, because that's what they do - cut Jws off from everything.

  • Betheliesalot
    DOC, Joe Hoover good one! can't stop chuckling
  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut

    When we celebrate our birthdays we don't open up the photo albums, gather around and coo over "the baby". We want people to relate to us as we are. Why would Jesus want it any differently than we do?

    Typically the person being celebrated is in the room and everyone is aware of their age. I can imagine some parents reflect back on the day their child is born, look at their photos and review all the events that took place that day especially if there was something particularly traumatic that happened. I know I do.

    Again, Christmas is based around the miraculous birth of the son of God and the events that took place at that time. There are other holidays and customs that highlight important aspects of his adult life. I don't think you're truly concerned about anyone being confused about Jesus still being a baby or that somehow he'd disapprove. The feeble arguments you present come across as attempt to nit pick and grasp at straws in order to feel more knowledgeable and or virtuous .

    As the Israel of God, His people are called out of the world. We're to separate ourselves as a holy nation unto God...following Jesus and worshipping in spirit and truth.

    That was the nation of Israel and God ended that arrangement because it failed miserably. They were an actual nation of people long before Jesus arrived so they weren't even following Jesus much of the time. JW's somehow dare to call themselves spiritual Israelites even though as far as I know, there was no indication that Christians were to view themselves as an actual nation, spiritual or otherwise.

    It is solely a tradition of men. God is not obligated to honour our feelings about "why" we celebrate christmas and He's not obligated to honour the traditions of men. Since December 25th isn't Jesus' birthday, it's even less likely that God honours the christmas celebration with His approval.

    Who said anything about God being obligated to honor our feelings or traditions and how is it that you presume know so much about what he approves or disapproves of that you can criticize and or condemn other peoples customs? As JW's we sang bible based songs several times during each of the meeting just like the hymns in the churches of Christendom. That was a man made custom that was intended to honor God rather than something God required. Who knows if he approved of it or not? Hopefully he saw it for what it was...humans trying to please him.

    It seems to me that when it comes to religion we are all guessing at just about everything and it is likely that we are all completely off track. I figure it's best not to criticize other people's religious customs especially since God (if he even exists) is probably shaking his head at everyone's attempts to figure out what he wants. The important thing, (if any of it truly happened) is that 2018 years after his death, people still know who Jesus was.

    My father passed away and isn't here to speak for himself but I can't imagine my brother or my sisters being so presumptuous as to claim that they knew him better or that he approved of them more or that their relationship with him and attempts to honor him are superior to mine.

    I just don't understand the superior attitude some people have about their religious beliefs and what God supposedly wants or approves of. They act as if they have it all figured out and have a special "in" with God and or mock or condemn anyone who thinks differently than they do. This is why I want nothing to do with religion and more often than not, religious people.

  • Finkelstein

    .......and the staid objection and condemnation of celebrating Christmas in any way is coming from a commercialized APOSTATE false prophet.

    Who are they to tell people whats unrighteous !.

    What devoted faithful Christians should do is act accordingly to Jesus's instructions and not listen to false Prophets.

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