Christmas arrogance

by stillin 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Nevuela

    Actually, the immaculate conception refers to Mary's own conception, in that she was the only human born after Adam and Eve who did not inherit original sin.

  • stillin

    Nuvuela, thank you for that. I have always gotten that confused. And frankly, I am still....

    Mary had a father and a mother. On Earth. Jesus was the one who was conceived by Holy Spirit, as the story goes. Thus, my confusion.

  • Lost in the fog
    Lost in the fog

    And while Jesus should be hailed as a heavenly king, he is presented as being a chief angel called Michael instead.

  • smiddy3

    Mainstream Christendom recognizes Jesus as the only one Christians are told to bear witness about and that he is King of Kings and Lord of Lords .

    And that the name of Jesus is above every other name and that every knee should bend in heaven on earth and those under the ground and OPENLY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD to the glory of God the father .

    Scriptures that admonish Christians to witness about Jesus ? in the New Testament ? over twenty .

    Scriptures that admonish Christians to witness about Jehovah in the New Testament ? ZERO .

  • myelaine

    dear Pete Zahut...

    You said..."I don't think you're truly concerned about anyone being confused about Jesus still being a baby or that somehow he'd disapprove. The feeble arguments you present come across as attempt to nit pick and grasp at straws in order to feel more knowledgeable and or virtuous"...

    I draw my argument from the fact that Jesus did what He did as an adult and the writers of the NT clearly want us to relate to Him as an adult. How could that make me feel more knowledgeable or virtuous?

    You said..."That was the nation of Israel and God ended that arrangement because it failed miserably. They were an actual nation of people long before Jesus arrived so they weren't even following Jesus much of the time. JW's somehow dare to call themselves spiritual Israelites even though as far as I know, there was no indication that Christians were to view themselves as an actual nation, spiritual or otherwise"...

    The apostle paul said that gentiles (wild olive branches) are grafted into israel with the jews (natural branches). Romans 11:27-26. It says ALL israel will be saved when referring to the "branches" of the tree. The apostle paul says that gentiles are drawn near to the commonwealth of israel and its covenants through the blood of Jesus. Ephesisns 2:12-13. Believers are no longer excluded from citizenship in israel. The apostle paul says that all believers are "the israel of God". Galatians 6:15-16. Both jews and gentiles become the new creation in Jesus. These believers are, the israel of God. Also ezekiel 37:21-23. God will call His children out of the nations, wherever they have gone. Anyone, jew or gentile, who believes Jesus is king over all is a citizen of one nation, israel. They are His people and He is their God.

    You said..."Who said anything about God being obligated to honor our feelings or traditions and how is it that you presume know so much about what he approves or disapproves of that you can criticize and or condemn other peoples customs?"...

    The bible is full of admonitions about what God approves and disapproves. I'm not taking a wild guess. Christians believe/FEEL that they are simply celebrating the birth of Jesus yet it is a fact that the dec 25 date and the traditional customs of christmas are rooted in paganism. God said make a distinction between the holy and the profane (don't mix the two). God said don't do what the world does, seperate yourselves from their practices.

    The hebrew nation took their precious things and made a golden calf, they knew that golden calf wasn't God but they transferred their thanksgiving and honour to that calf...with all sincerity (FEELINGS). God didn't approve. The bible tells us that Jesus doesn't approve of traditions of men when they make void the word of God. I've already given examples of how the admonitions from God are ignored/made void in the celebration of christmas. That is why I said God isn't obligated to honour our feelings or traditions of men.

    You said, "I just don't understand the superior attitude some people have about their religious beliefs and what God supposedly wants or approves of. They act as if they have it all figured out and have a special "in" with God and or mock or condemn anyone who thinks differently than they do."...

    I don't think it's a matter of understanding. I think you just don't like it when people are given valid reasons to examine THEMSELVES to see if they are in the faith or if they're still kinda doing their own "thing". Perhaps it makes you harken back to your JW days when everything you did, thought and said was micro managed? Now that you're free from that, I'd bet that you take any biblical instruction that you find contrary to your "freedom" as mocking or condemnation of you personally. That's completely understandable, however, from me it is neither. I haven't mocked anyone. I haven't condemned anyone.


  • myelaine

    dear stillin...

    I'm not sure who said it, but it has been suggested that what made Mary the chosen vessel to carry Jesus is that her bloodline and consequently her DNA wasn't tainted by the DNA of the fallen angels. She'd be fully human, not a hybrid mixture.

  • Pete Zahut
  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut

    @ Myelaine me this seems like more of the same skewed human logic where daisy chained bible verses are stretched to the maximum in order to force them to marginally apply to modern day situations.

  • LongHairGal


    I forgot about that bit of Catholics saying Mary was conceived without sin. I remember a song to that effect.

    Of course, I don’t know what I believe about anything now!

  • stillin

    It's all such a stretch. ""Rooted in paganism." "Conceived without sin." "The Bible is the Word of God."

    I understand right and wrong. Do no harm. Do unto others...etc. But we all stand on our own understanding. We do our best. We don't want to fake ourselves out. Just honest, upright people. Why elevate ourselves with contrived belief systems that look down on others' beliefs?

    I really am happy for those who find some peace in prayer, or contentment in some way of life that subscribes to a religion. I just don't care to be classified as some self-serving pagan or heathen when I think that if there's a God in Heaven, He/She/It is much bigger than something you can define in such small-minded terms. I think that that Diety knows what we are and that we should be careful how we represent It.

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