Apologists saying that the JWs shouldn't be banned, what the hell!??
It's been brought to my attention that there are xjw that say they support the witnesses and don't think Russia should ban them. I would just like to remind all of you that JWs are guilty of murder, causing higher rates of suicide, covering up child molestation, and keeping members in prisoned because if they leave they loose family, financial support, possible employment etc.
Sure their not strapping bombs to their chests but they easily get members to kill themselves with their blood policies. They are an extremist group!!
I'm not opposed to ridding Russia of the JW religion in principle, but history has born out again and again that banning a religious sect does not weaken it; persecution only fans the flames of fanaticism.
I think the world would be a much better place without drugs like heroin and meth, but I also acknowledge that the war on drugs only makes these substances even deadlier, not less.
Prohibiting beliefs, substances and practices has never succeeded in eliminating these things from society. Laws only succeed in making people into criminals and subsidizing a bloated system of police, courts and prisons.
The first step to eliminating crimes of any kind is to repeal laws. Then, instead of banning the practice outright, the government should instead regulate and tax it.
In relation to the JWs, this would mean that the Russian government would allow the JWs to continue practicing their religion, but their activities would be heavily curtailed . If they wanted to do street preaching they would need to purchase licenses and could only do it in certain places and at certain times. Door-to-door ministry would also require licensing and could only be done from noon until 5pm so as not to disturb residents who are sleeping or eating dinner; all violations would incur severe fines for the congregations involved.
Also, since the watchtower IS an American corporation and not a church proper, it would be subject to the same tax rate that all foreign corporations must pay for doing business in Russia.
Shunning would remain semi-legal (since it would be impossible to regulate), but if the Watchtower DF'd a member for simply speaking to a dissassociated or disfellowshipped individual, the congregation would be fined $1000 USD and might have the preaching licenses of individual members revoked until the DF'd person was reinstated.
Legalize, regulate, tax.
Not being for the Russian ban is not the same as supporting the religion. In fact, a ban in Russia is a win/win for Watchtower.
The best method of counteracting cults such as Watchtower is not banning, but as was said regulate, tax, fine the organization. Not putting the rank and file people in jail simply for going to meetings, door knocking, ect... If any individual is guilty of actual criminal acts, that individual should go to jail, of course.
The WTS as an organisation is guilty of many things and I welcome any legal pressure put on this structure and representatives. Banning the Witnesses in Russia will do nothing to weaken the organisation and criminalise individual Witnesses, many of whom are essentially harmless on a day to day basis.
This law is not being used solely against the Witnesses either. It's being used against many other organisations and is a reflection of an insidious culture of legalised oppression and suppression of some basic freedoms that seems to be increasingly endemic inside the Russian political machine.
Nobody is apologising for the WTS as far as I can tell, it's just there is a bigger picture around this ban that is far more worrying for the human rights of many, many people in Russia that have nothing to do with the Witnesses.
I think you nailed it! When used against extremist elements, bans tend only feed fanaticism.
Against a money-hungry mob such as the WTS, hitting them hard where it hurts the most, like the hip-pocket, is much more effective!
Wow, I have to say I find the whole premise of this OP both disturbing and offensive.
While I am a vocal atheist, I also believe strongly in freedom of religion. I don't think the State should be telling people what they can believe and what they can't believe.
People should be allowed to practice their religions however they see fit - so long as they don't trespass upon the rights of others. We will defeat these high control religions by spreading knowledge as far and wide as we can. Not by legislating what religions are and aren't allowed.
If you are talking about Cedars, he is NO apologist.
It's been brought to my attention that there are xjw that say they support the witnesses and don't think Russia should ban them.
What pompous phraseology to introduce your OP! It sounds like a mock-serious opener. Bosses, teachers and/or the Police use phrases like, "It's been brought to our attention...." Well good for you, oh almighty one.
And BTW, your phrasing further let's you down when you state, 'xjws say they support the witnesses...'. What a careless misrepresentation of what posters who oppose a ban have actually said.
For the record, I DON"T support the witnesses per se - but I DO support people's right to practice their religious beliefs and identify themselves as belonging to a specific religious organization. Yes, even Scientologists - but it does not mean I support their beliefs and practices.
As others have ably said, the mere attempt to outlaw or ban a group does little else beyond fanning the flames of members' zealotry.
It would be the best thing if JW's (aka Watchtower) were to be banned in Russia (or anywhere).
I have a different twist on this.
Firstly, and most importantly, the ban means the confiscation of the WT's property. That means their nice property in St. Petersburg is gone. Their Kingdumb halls. All of it. GONE.
This is the real concern for the governing bastards. The real estate. They do not give a rat's azz if the brothers suffer. Hell, they probably think (like many have commented) that a ban will make them grow faster. They would invite it for that reason!
What the gb is concerned about is the real estate. They have had time to put down roots, real estate roots.
And so, for that reason alone I say BAN THEM. Take the loot. That'll hurt.
Secondly, this is NOT your grandpa's generation. It would be a false assumption to think that a ban would make them grow, for no other reason then 'that is how it played out in the past.'
There's a saying on Wall St. "past performance is not an indicator of future results"
In other words, just because, in the past, it worked like that, is no guaranty that it will work that way now.
I think quite the opposite. The "generation" that tolerated this kind of opposition has "passed away". Today's dubs would see the failure to win, in this situation, as a failure of their theology and their theologians. They do not expect this "so close to the end"... unless Babylon The Great would have already had her comeuppance first.
No, dubs would see it as a failure of their gawd to be behind them. Many will quit right away.
"Do not rejoice in your enemy's misfortune.--" sometimes even the expanded talking snake tale has a good suggestion.