Vicki Boer and Donations

by hillary_step 55 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Mindchild

  Hillary,

  I hope you don?t object to my bringing up a few issues with your post in this thread. My intention is NOT to discourage anyone from donating funds to Vicki Boer, but to ask a few questions about the methodology you are describing and to get some puzzling statements you made in your post cleared up.

  The first concern that I have, is that you are not being pessimistic enough in thinking through the donation process at this stage in time. The main issue I have is that it is no secret that the Society monitors this website. It would hardly come as any surprise then that they would read the threads related to donating funds towards paying for Vicki Boer?s legal expenses. It is also hard to miss that several people here (not counting interest in any other ex-JW websites) support the idea of contributing funds to help pay these unfair legal expenses. Having said all this, don?t you think it is possible that we may not be doing Vicki Boer any favors? In fact, if the Society really wasn?t interested in collecting the money but rather was using this as a means to deter others from bringing similar lawsuits against them, the fact that you have a large group of people willing to pay these legal fees changes the equation. It might just trigger them to pursue the fight to collect these fees even more aggressively.

  Even worse, there is a public record now on this board of setting up a donation vehicle (as you call it) that covertly channels funds to Vicki Boer. Can you imagine how this can play into the Watchtower lawyers? hands if they made a complaint to the judge that there is evidence that Vicki Boer was receiving undocumented funds by an organized group fighting the Watchtower Society? Not only could this change the mood of the judge, it could open up the Boers for possible audits from tax authorities in Canada.

  I wouldn?t have such concerns if there was a definitive ruling already in place as towards the terms and conditions of payment of legal fees to the Watchtower Society. But as far as I can determine, this hasn?t taken place yet. If the judge has for example ordered a $1,000 per month to be paid by the Boer?s for their obligatory legal fees, and then someone came along and organized a funding system, there is little motivation for the other team to go to court and bitch about it.

  The other item I wanted to bring up is this. As you said?

  My own feeling is that the WTS are not interested in Vicki?s money and that is not why they pushed this issue with the Court. They are fully aware of the impossibility of Vicki paying this large sum of money to them, or even being able to pay her lawyers.

  Okay, if this is indeed the case, and people from this board donated funds on the expectation that the funds be used for paying the unreasonable Watchtower legal fees, then there exists the possibility that some people who donated money wouldn?t be very happy about the situation. I have no objection at all for anyone donating money to the Boer?s for whatever reason they desire. If however, there is a marketing campaign, as there already is for paying the Watchtower legal fees, and those fees never materialize?well you get my drift.

  This same thought ties in with the other statement you made:

  7) NOT ONE PENNY of your money will be given to the WTS or any other body for that matter!( let the reader use discernment ).

  Just what is the money being used for then, if not to pay the court judgment? My discernment seems to be a little rusty today...

  Please don't view this as an attack on your fine efforts and others to help out the Boer's. My main concern is to potentially avoid causing more harm by our good intentions.

  Skipper
• 

  Valis

  Just what is the money being used for then, if not to pay the court judgment?

  Hey Mind, why not just for anything Vicki wanted? Maybe just a thank you from us for having to deal with it all?

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
• 

  waiting

  Mindchild's got good points - all sides of this problem need to be explored & answered. However, perhaps not on the open forum?

  Mindchild put forth his questions with due respect and caution (more than I've done in the past, eh?).

  As for money we wish to gift to Vicki? Well, perhaps she and her lovely husband would like to come to Joy & Steve's International Apostafest over Halloween w/e?

  Good questions - and wonderful work being done for Vicki!

  waiting
• 

  shamus

  I think that the question, why is the news not on this story?

  For god's sake, this is tragic and disgusting beyond belief!

  Why is this not top news in Canada??????
• 

  hillary_step

  Hello Mindchild,

  I agree with Waiting ( as ever! ) that all issues and concerns regarding this scenario should be discussed and I thank you for raising them.

  This collection, and I deliberately use this term rather than a 'fund' is not focused on helping Vicki pay the WTS or her lawyers. Though I am not going to tell Vicki how to spend any money donated to her by other people I think you will see that even if the absurd arises and Vicki is pursued by the WTS and others even at a $1,000 per month it would take over eighteen years to pay of the debts the court have landed her with. Given this ridiculous scenario, Vicki has other legal options and is being helped by an accountant on JWD to examine these.

  Also, we have to be sensible and appreciate that the chances of raising anything but what might be immediately useful to Vicki, Scott and the girls is not realistic. This collection is being raised to help Vicki with her immediate expenses. Even if we buy a vacation for her to help clear her mind, then it will be a job well done. If it raises a lot of cash, well so much the better. This whole scenario will send a message to the WTS that while they will not support Vicki and take the responsibility for the damage done to her, we as an XJW community will, as we no longer attach our morality and ethics to a corrupt Organization.

  It also has to be noted that Vicki may appeal this decision as Justice Molloy allows and the decision may indeed be reversed but this makes no difference to my own view that despite the potential of this legal reverse, a collection made on Vicki?s behalf at this juncture is an act of kindness and support. Our way of saying, ?Vicki, we are here for you?.

  As to the shielding of this cash, rest assured that Vicki will be receive her collection in cash and that plans are in place to make sure that between donation and receipt this collection will not be interfered with. I cannot and will not give details of how this will be done. All I can say is that three people will know how, Vicki, myself and AlanF. The process will be monitored simultaneously by the three of us. At some stage the donators are going to have to trust our honesty and integrity and if a person feels uncomfortable taking our word for it, then it may be better if they do not donate. I will note however, that I have often worked as a consultant for 501(c)(3) organizations.

  Okay, if this is indeed the case, and people from this board donated funds on the expectation that the funds be used for paying the unreasonable Watchtower legal fees, then there exists the possibility that some people who donated money wouldn?t be very happy about the situation. I have no objection at all for anyone donating money to the Boer?s for whatever reason they desire. If however, there is a marketing campaign, as there already is for paying the Watchtower legal fees, and those fees never materialize?well you get my drift.

  This collection as I hope that I have made clear has nothing to do with helping Vicki pay for WTS fees or Lawyers fees. Vicki will need to attend to that in other ways that the law allows. This collection is a group of friends supporting a person who has fallen on hard times, nothing more and nothing less. I have deliberately avoided describing or designing this process as an official 'trust fund'. This would certainly present a large target.

  I hope that this clears up at least some of your fears. Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like, it is after all your money.

  Best regards to all - HS
• 

  shamus

  I would like to add that these questions posed are excellent, and have a right to be answered. We wouldn't want a scandal here! Not that that's going to happen.
• 

  Mindchild

  Thank you Hillary for your kind and prompt reply.

  I think you gave an adequate hearing for the concerns I raised and clearly stated that these funds are not specifically targeted for WTS fees or attorney fees. Thus, the WTS shouldn't be able to make any formal complaints over the fact that individuals may choose to send funds to the Boer's for whatever reason they wish.

  Thank you also for your assurances and efforts to ensure the gifts to the Boer family are handled responsibly.

  I now return you gentle and not so gentle site participants back to your thread. Sorry about the speed bump.

  Kind Regards,

  Skipper
• 

  Brummie

  HS, well done. I am in and anything I can contrubute to Vickie is on the basis of a gift that can be used for anything she so chooses. It has nothing to do with the WT whose dishonest people claim welfare and yet are given "Gifts" by the brothers for working for them that do not have to be declared.

  1)Welfare is for people who have no income.

  2)all income should be taxed and declared.

  3)Jehovah's Witnesses do repair jobs or other jobs for brothers and are given "a gift" which in reality is a wage that goes undeclared.

  How totally stupid it would be for the Watchtower lawyers to make an issue of us giving Vickie a gift which is not worked for and yet overlook the fact that many JWs are given "gifts" on the basis they do jobs.

  Brummie
• 

  waiting

  All I can say is that three people will know how, Vicki, myself and AlanF. The process will be monitored simultaneously by the three of us. At some stage the donators are going to have to trust our honesty and integrity and if a person feels uncomfortable taking our word for it, then it may be better if they do not donate

  Yeah, I trust y'all's honesty and integrity....particularily Vicki's. If she's like me, by god, she KNOWS where her money is - or isn't.

  Not that we're cheap....we just know.

  waiting for instructions.
• 

  Dawn

  Thank you Hillary - I'm awaiting further instructions.

  My 2 cents.....I would hate to see any of my donated $$ go to the WTBS - but I would hate even more to just ignore the situation out of hate for the organization and leave Viki to carry the load on her own. I guess I can sacrifice some $$ even to the WTBS if it helps Viki to know that others are available to help shoulder the weight.

  In the end - it is we who are better off even if we loose some more $$ to those @ss-wipes because we are no longer a slave like they are. We are free to live, free to believe, and free to support whoever WE choose to support.