Watchtower Philosophy Debates

by Wild_Thing 21 Replies latest jw friends

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  Wild_Thing

  I was wondering how many of you still enjoy (or maybe you just feel the need) to discuss and debate JW doctrine and scripture. I find myself scrolling right past those topics I see online. I could care less. I feel like that is a debate no one is going to win, and I have often wondered if the ones who want to argue the points are people who have found another religion that "really is the right one this time", or maybe they are still trying to prove to themselves it is the Truth™. I really don't know.

  I still find myself wanting (and needing) to discuss the sociological issues within the organization. Shunning, the banning of higher education, their gross mishandling of abuse within the congregations, their isolationist attitudes, etc.

  I'm pretty much past the need to discuss anything that the Bible says or who the Watchtower thinks the King of the North is this time.

  What about you?
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  scratchme1010

  I feel like that is a debate no one is going to win, and I have often wondered if the ones who want to argue the points are people who have found another religion that "really is the right one this time", or maybe they are still trying to prove to themselves it is the Truth™. I really don't know.
  

  The point that you make is very interesting. The way I see it is that different people are at different stages of their lives, different stages of their sorting their own spiritual path, and to me that means that those debates matter to some degree.

  I find id difficult to balance allowing people their own space to develop their own believes and putting up with a lot of nonsense. Where I find the most problems is that some people are still in JW mode, meaning that they go with the intent to convince others, not necessarily to listen what others have to say.

  Also, I find it ok moving on from the debate and let others carry on. Just my thoughts.
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  waton

  Doctrines are more of an exact science, they can be proven wrong just by looking at the parameters, definition. example:

  anointed generation versus general population (wicked generation).

  Jesus defined the length: the generation will not pass away until all these things, including the destruction have occurred.

  wt's anointed generation has to pass away to heaven before the destruction even gets seriously started, because the resurrected, immortal anointed are among the warrior executioners. so:

  wt false! no ifs or buts. already build into their predictions.

  hard facts beat sociology, opinions every time. imh opinion.
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  Wild_Thing

  scratchme1010 -- I agree. I think maybe some of it has to do with where people are in the process of leaving the JWs. I just almost don't have the patience to listen to the nonsense anymore. I guess that's a good thing and means I've moved on. I don't begrudge anyone who needs to still discuss it, I just can't go there anymore.

  waton -- You've sort of proven my point. My eyes glazed over when I got to the word "anointed". :P
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  waton

  wild thing, thanks, and you have proven my point too. Confronted with indisputable hard facts, some people will mentally shut down, will resist to learn further, and

  On examples, the generation that is clearly wrong, we have not even touched on the overlapping yet, that will take them to 2075.-- notice i did not use the "a" word to forestall further glazing over.
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  amicabl

  I read all the posts on doctrine changes and debates, murders in Venezuela, just about everything in order to keep up to date and casually pass snippets of info on to my still in wife. She seems to appreciate knowing about things before others. It doesn't seem to make a difference but who knows. I'm getting this activity down to a fine art now.
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  Wild_Thing

  wild thing, thanks, and you have proven my point too. Confronted with indisputable hard facts, some people will mentally shut down, will resist to learn further, and

  waton, you don't have to convince me. I know that Watchtower doctrines are bullshit. I just don't care to debate them anymore, it really doesn't matter. It doesn't really matter what religious dogma a group follows if they continue to suppress and abuse their members. True, sometimes they go hand in hand, but not the ones that I see debated so often.

  Quite frankly, you sound like a pompous ass. My comment about my eyes glazing over was meant to be a sort of joke, but one that has some truth in it. I am not "mentally shutting down" because your evidence is so super-duper and I am resisting your awesomeness to teach me. My eyes glaze over because that is what Watchtower jargon does to me.

  But keep fighting the fight. I am sure someone needs convincing somewhere.

  I have seen many more people leave the organization over sociological issues (being shunned, suppressed, abused, etc.) than over doctrinal issues. Quite frankly, its not hard to prove the Watchower's ever changing doctrines are wrong. Allowing yourself the freedom to research it and prove it to yourself is a whole other story. I did that already so I'm kind of done.
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  Wild_Thing

  I read all the posts on doctrine changes and debates, murders in Venezuela, just about everything in order to keep up to date and casually pass snippets of info on to my still in wife. She seems to appreciate knowing about things before others. It doesn't seem to make a difference but who knows. I'm getting this activity down to a fine art now.

  Yes, I still have family in, and it helps to know what it going on. It does help to explain their behavior when I find out they are discouraging any contact with worldly family, for example. If I had someone I was interested in convincing to leave, I might have more interest in the debates I see here online, but none of my JW family speak to me anymore.
  
  
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  punkofnice

  Scratchy - they go with the intent to convince others, not necessarily to listen what others have to say.

  That nailed it for me.

  On top of that, I no longer believe the bible is a holy book, any more than the quran or nancy drew mysteries. So I won't argue 'scriptural' things. I find it worthless.

  Like scratchy intimates, the jobos won't listen. It's all one way with them. THEIR WAY.

  That's how the wbt$ has 'mind cleansed™' has programmed these victims though.
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  Half banana

  I would question the use of the word philosophy in connection with JWs. Philosophy in the strict sense is a permanent enquiry into the truthful nature of things whereas JWs smugly think they have already arrived at the only conclusion possible.

  With 43,000 other religions also claiming that their way is the shortcut to paradise, the only path God intended, philosophically speaking it makes you consider that solid foundations for religious "truth" must be missing.

  Doctrines are a defining collection of the chosen beliefs of a sect, you pays your money and you takes your choice! If on the other hand you want to find clarity and get to the bottom of a matter, you must research and question everything, especially the authority and validity of source material.

  So in answer to your question Wild Thing another question; what is the point in arguing about unprovable things?