I believe that it is logical that there is some degrees of evolution after the universe was created by God.
Evolution OR Creation?
by Brummie 183 Replies latest members adult
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Frannie Banannie
Since God hasn't ridden up on a bicycle and informed me as to the truth of the matter....and since no one alive today, nor anyone who's ever been alive from the beginning to author any commentary re: the facts of this matter, I'll just stay in the dark on this subject.......I'm sure that if there IS any living being out there who knows and wishes for me to know the truth about the beginnings of man's existence, they'll let me know in their own way and time....
Cheers!
Frannie B
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Mindchild
I think the evolution and creation debate has extensive emotional attachment to both theists and non-theists because of the issue of meaning and purpose in life. On one hand you have the idea that God directly created humans, and as God is naturally God, the workmanship and warranty were supposed to be the best in the business. When human’s voided the warranty by getting service work done outside the divine dealership, everything has been going downhill since and the not only is the ride getting rougher, but a complete breakdown is likely sometime soon. Only the divine dealership can fix the problems and get the beast running smoothly again.
Of course the other school of thought, that evolution, either by means of natural causative processes, or perhaps designed and implemented by God, starts with the premises that mutations, natural selection, population pressures and nonzero sum games are working towards a new and improved form of humankind. That there was never a perfect man and woman to start with, that there never was a Garden of Eden in which they got kicked out of, and that as they were never perfect to start with, the symbolic trade of a perfect life for a imperfect life (Jesus dying for your sins) just doesn’t have much application.
People find it easy to attach meaning to the Creationistic memeplex because it implies a Divine Being who is going to make things better for the good people now living, who follow the writings of ancient dead people. I believe the reward of meaning and purpose is less for most non-theistic individuals who subscribe to evolutionary theory. Their comprehensive view of reality basically states that we can find meaning and purpose without Holy books by our actions in making the world a better place.
Many of these same evolutionists also realize that the real secret of life is not limited to the evolution of DNA, but another discovery made way back at the same time when Watson and Crick made DNA newsworthy: the thesis of the nonzero sum game developed by Oskar Morgenstern and John von Neumann.
The basic principle underlying life itself is the superior reproduction success that favors win-win games. In other words, biological systems are forced (without any designer) by Darwinian selection into more complexity and more win-win scenarios. Complex intelligence is almost and inevitable result, given enough time of the evolutionary process. This strongly suggests that life throughout the universe, will some day reach such levels that we humans now would consider God’s. Perhaps these future or even existing Gods will create new universes in which life once again springs up and starts its complex dance to the stars. Being part of this great cycle of life and progress can perhaps give us some additional meaning and satisfaction.
Skipper
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Simon
For anyone interested in the subject, this is an excellent site:
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Pleasuredome
.Pd, at this point I cant see how that is as good as evolution. That is more like science fiction than science, sience supports the facts of evolution, it is the theory of evolution that is not necassarily scientific (though could be). Aliens engineering doesnt have any facts associated with it. Evolution does. (I only just found out so I am merely a beginner).
this is what the aliens would have looked like
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Nikita
PD-ok that was funny!
Brummie, how can you argue with that?
Nikita
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patio34
Little Toe,
How are you? You said:
It doesn't say (as Patio suggested) that dinosaurs were vegetarians
My thought is that it does say that--although some have argued it--at Gen. 1:30:
every creature...I have given all green vegetation as food.
This has never happened according to what I know. That's why I said what I did.
Cheers!
Pat
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Robdar
Genesis 1:29 (NWT)
And God went on to say: "Here I have given to you all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To you let it serve as food."
Anybody want to join me in eating some "space cakes"? Gotta love those maryjane brownies!
Back to the topic. I think it is both. Creation with a built in mechanism for evolution. Not necessarily divinely directed but available when all hell breaks out on earth and its creatures need to evolve to survive.
Rob
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bebu
Genesis mentions that God created the plants and animals and birds "according to their kind(s)". I have often felt that this is a mention of micro-evolution, where species can have so many varieties over time.
I have difficulties with macro-evolution, where a species gradually becomes a new species--if you "just give it enough time".
We are a mathmatic impossibility, considering then nature of inorganic material and what is required for even one simple life form to spring into being--let alone to survive very long.
I believe that God created man in His own image, a special "kind". If it's possible for inorganic matter to just "cross over" into a life form with no known prime mover, why is it so impossible for a Prime Mover to intelligently create a person? Both of these require a leap of faith, but the second is for me a smaller jump compared to the first.
I like your comments, Brummie, and also I like Little Toe's answer about the point of view. That is the kind of point of view I would expect an ancient writer to take.
bebu
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Brummie
Bebu I am currently looking at macro, micro, and can see your point, micro is where evolution & christian accept Science and have no argument with eachother concerning evolution, so the real issue is macro if I have understood correctly.
Patio, do you think the Bible innocently remains silent on the dinosaurs? I'm thinking that the Bible doesnt comment specifically on several issues because it simply couldnt cover it all. Whatever it doesnt cover may have been superficial at the time, for instance it does not say anything about meat eaters when it comments on the vegitation. It doesnt say "I have given you the vegitation but you cannot eat the meat" but that doesnt mean they cant eat the meat, it doesnt say anything about drinking the milk of cows either but that doesnt mean milk is questionable if added to a vegitarian diet. Just wondering if this is a credible viewpoint? What it doesnt mention does not devalue the authenticity?
LOL @ PD. Nikita, my argument at this stage is that they are not aliens but are my brothers playing a practical joke, of course, this is only a theory.
Drwtsn
Now you have to explain how an even more complex creator came into existence.
Why would this explanation be needed by creationist? We have to start somewhere, evolution doesnt start at the beginning does it? Why is it ok for one not to go into the more complex things (how did life get here) and yet not ok for the other (how did God get here)? bare with me, I'm just asking questions as they arise.
midchild that was very interesting. Thanks again all, I'd like to comment on each but will have to leave now. I'll get back to you.
Brummie
